Collecting money

[480sparky]

Loss of revenue is not a "real" loss, _especially_ in slow times and you're a one man show when you wouldn't have earned the money during that time frame.

So if you put $12,000 in your pocket this morning and couldn't find it at lunch, you'd consider it 'not a "real" loss'?

 

[Electric-Light]

So if you put $12,000 in your pocket this morning and couldn't find it at lunch, you'd consider it 'not a "real" loss'?

If someone broke into the ticket booth and stole $700 in cash from ticket sales after a busy Friday night, that's a $700 loss.

Suppose someone pulls off a trick and sneak in 100 people into the movie theater for Monday noon showing and the price of each ticket is $7, but these people wouldn't have paid to go in and much of seats would have gone unsold anyhow. It would be a $700 loss of calculated revenue but not a $700 direct loss.

 

[kwired]

If someone broke into the ticket booth and stole $700 in cash from ticket sales after a busy Friday night, that's a $700 loss.

Suppose someone pulls off a trick and sneak in 100 people into the movie theater for Monday noon showing and the price of each ticket is $7, but these people wouldn't have paid to go in and much of seats would have gone unsold anyhow. It would be a $700 loss of calculated revenue but not a $700 direct loss.

If ticket booth operator steals the cash they likely get fired, and maybe even prosecuted for theft (on some level).

If ticket booth operator sneaks people in that would have otherwise would have paid same price - they likely still get fired, may or may not be prosecuted for something but if they are probably not for same theft charges.

Of course $700 at ticket booth is a big deal at our small town theater compared to big city theater - they will not even see that many people attending on most nights to be able to collect anywhere near $700 at ticket booth.

That said they likely do have increased sales from concessions, but do have more employee time for clean up/other associated expense from those extra people - they likely use the restrooms, will require more air conditioning operation because they are there for starters.

 

[Upnorth]

If someone broke into the ticket booth and stole $700 in cash from ticket sales after a busy Friday night, that's a $700 loss.

Suppose someone pulls off a trick and sneak in 100 people into the movie theater for Monday noon showing and the price of each ticket is $7, but these people wouldn't have paid to go in and much of seats would have gone unsold anyhow. It would be a $700 loss of calculated revenue but not a $700 direct loss.

"Sneaking in" is a theft of services. It's a crime, like theft of the money. In MA, theft over $250 is a felony. Implying "unsold tickets" are worthless is like saying copyright infringement should be legal if you're not being paid for the unauthorized distribution of copies. Yes, the cinema or copyright owners may CHOOSE to give away the free use.

As for "collecting", the "mechanic's lien" on the improved property can be a very effective tool. A valid lien can be enforce against the property, regardless of who happens to own it after the job is done. State and local regs may require it to be filed within 90 days of incurring the debt, then sued upon within a year, or similar rules.

 

[electricalist]

When Pepsi doesn't profit a billion $ this quarter they air it on news as a loss, not as a loss of profit.

 

[kwired]

When Pepsi doesn't profit a billion $ this quarter they air it on news as a loss, not as a loss of profit.

One needs to pay attention to what they are saying is the shortcoming. They very well may average a billion in profit, or have a goal to reach a certain profit amount, anything less is a loss in respect to the goal or the typical amount for a similar period.

However if their total revenue receipts for a period exceeds the expenses for that same period - even if only by one dollar - that is profit.

 

[jahilliard]

My HARD Lessons about "Liens"

My HARD Lessons about "Liens"

I have lost everything once already in 2008...to the tune of $165,000.00 in AR for projects completed. Now I'm struggling to get back in it with virtually little to no credit and one supplier willing to work with me. Completed a project for a "GC" last November with a contract of $40K. We completed the entire project within a 30 day billing period so we had all labor and materials in it and had billed on time for the entire project. I was sent a "Release of Lien" by the GC so that he could receive payment from the Owner. On the top of the release it said "UPON FINAL PAYMENT"..considering I hadn't received payment I signed the release assuming based upon the wording that the release was a "conditional" release. Turns out, if that "conditional" wording isn't in the bulk of the wording within the release it's considered "Generic wording" and I lose all my Lien Rights, there shold've been a specific sum for payment etc. I thought I had solved all my payment issues by sending "Notice to Owner" for EVERY project and I still got burned. I am currently paying a Promissory Note to my supplier to the tune of $2100.00/month to pay for this lack of knowledge, not to mention my labor costs have been paid as well. At fifteen % Net/Net Margins, that was a TRUE LOSS of $34,000.00. Not to mention the loss of working capital to actually stay in business. This really really tested my resolve to stay in business. Daily I contemplate becoming an employee!

 

[zbang]

That is a hard lesson but reinforces the mantra "Don't sign if you don't understand." Pretty much any time I get an agreement that I haven't seen before or don't understand, it gets run by the lawyer. They might charge $50-100 to give it a read, but that's usually cheap insurance (and a deductible expense). Once or twice, he's said "H*&L, no!"; then I have him and the other party work something out. If it costs me $300 for this on a $2000 job, I still have $1700 that I probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Yes, it eats into any profit, but better left with no profit and the expenses covered than nothing at all.

BTW, some independent restaurants work on a daily cash basis with their suppliers- supplier delivers today and the restaurant deposits cash in their bank account later today or the next morning. Repeat daily. Supplier is never on the hook for more than a weekend's worth of food and the restaurant knows that bill has been paid.

 

[petersonra]

BTW, some independent restaurants work on a daily cash basis with their suppliers- supplier delivers today and the restaurant deposits cash in their bank account later today or the next morning. Repeat daily. Supplier is never on the hook for more than a weekend's worth of food and the restaurant knows that bill has been paid.

I don't think it is handled this way anymore because of fears of robbery but it used to be fairly common for beer truck drivers and other suppliers to bars and restaurants to collect on delivery. A lot of bars and restaurants are very close to the edge, even those that seem busy and thus assumed profitable.

 

[jim dungar]

I don't think it is handled this way anymore because of fears of robbery but it used to be fairly common for beer truck drivers and other suppliers to bars and restaurants to collect on delivery. A lot of bars and restaurants are very close to the edge, even those that seem busy and thus assumed profitable.

It is still very common.
No money, no goods.

 

[zbang]

I don't think it is handled this way anymore because of fears of robbery but it used to be fairly common for beer truck drivers and other suppliers to bars and restaurants to collect on delivery.

The ones I was thinking of don't pay the driver, they put it in the supplier's bank. But yes, pay-the-driver is less common that it used to be and may be a check instead of cash.

This goes along with one of my favorite contract phrases, "Work is accepted as it is performed." We'd use that for hired-hands that we'd send to a client site, where the client is directing the work, not our manager/foreman.

 

[Fulthrotl]

This goes along with one of my favorite contract phrases, "Work is accepted as it is performed."
We'd use that for hired-hands that we'd send to a client site, where the client is directing the work, not our manager/foreman.

it is a popular phrase.

"speak now or forever hold your peace" from the standard
boiler plate marriage vows comes to mind.

 

[Electric-Light]

All I'm saying is that if someone owes you a quarter for your labor, don't spend a quarter in gas, and another quarter's equivalent in your time in collection effort.

I had a stupid bird swing right by me and picked the chicken breast from my sandwich right out of my hand. I was livid. of all the things, losing my lunch that way was the least I was expecting to happen. I sucked it up, but I was now more aware of my surroundings

 

[ptonsparky]

All I'm saying is that if someone owes you a quarter for your labor, don't spend a quarter in gas, and another quarter's equivalent in your time in collection effort.

I had a stupid bird swing right by me and picked the chicken breast from my sandwich right out of my hand. I was livid. of all the things, losing my lunch that way was the least I was expecting to happen. I sucked it up, but I was now more aware of my surroundings

Stupid bird?
He/she got a free lunch.
You got an education from a birdbrain.

 

[kwired]

All I'm saying is that if someone owes you a quarter for your labor, don't spend a quarter in gas, and another quarter's equivalent in your time in collection effort.

True but if someone owes me $10,000 and it is going to cost me $10,000 just to collect it, I probably am better off to let it go and focus on profiting elsewhere, but not many want the other party to think they got away with something and will take action anyway.

 

[gadfly56]

True but if someone owes me $10,000 and it is going to cost me $10,000 just to collect it, I probably am better off to let it go and focus on profiting elsewhere, but not many want the other party to think they got away with something and will take action anyway.

For us, it's a couple hundred bucks just to file the lien with the county. We are not going to lien a $100 job. Then if you want to prosecute the lien, it starts at around $1,200 or so. So you use this particular tool judiciously.

Sometimes you may do a lien just because you don't want someone to think they can get away with it. A secondary benefit is that you may get a rep as someone not to screw with. If a shady GC knows ahead of time that you'll come looking for your money, he may not even bother trying to get you on board. That way he screens himself away and you never wind up dealing with his BS.

 

[kwired]

For us, it's a couple hundred bucks just to file the lien with the county. We are not going to lien a $100 job. Then if you want to prosecute the lien, it starts at around $1,200 or so. So you use this particular tool judiciously.

Sometimes you may do a lien just because you don't want someone to think they can get away with it. A secondary benefit is that you may get a rep as someone not to screw with. If a shady GC knows ahead of time that you'll come looking for your money, he may not even bother trying to get you on board. That way he screens himself away and you never wind up dealing with his BS.

That's just it, every bad receivable has it's own characteristics. Some may not be all that worth trying to collect - other then to show them you are serious about non paying clients, getting into legal proceedings with them maybe does hurt them enough to teach them a lesson, but many already know the game and is why they play it in the first place. Those that truly have a hardship and can't pay you right away are the ones that will pay you later even if you were not expecting them to do so, the others just don't care.

Had a lady once paid me monthly payments for connecting a mobile home for her(that wasn't worth connecting but was done anyway). She moved out of the area before I was completely paid. I figured I would never see the rest of what she owed me, but she kept paying until she had it all paid off. Others that appear from outside looking in to have some money have stiffed me completely, and never had any intention of paying me from what I can tell.