Cost of inspections

[sfav8r]

We generally work in San Francisco but in the last year have been doing a fair amount of work outside the city (various reasons). In SF we select AM or PM inspection and then the morning of the inspection the inspector calls with usually a 1 or 2 hour window of when they will be there. We have an inspection coming up next wee in a jurisdiction where you can select AM or PM but that's it. No further clarification. Since they require an electrician be on site for the inspection, it gets expensive. If it's a rough inspection you might get some work done while you're waiting, but on a final we have had guys sit from 12-3:45 when the inspector finally shows up. I have a few questions.

1) What does your area do for scheduling? How much time do you waste waiting for inspections?
2) If you're an inspector...Is there any reason a jurisdiction can't provide a 1 hour window? I guess certain geographic limitations in rural areas could have an impact. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but it feels like some jurisdictions could really care less how much they inconvenience the contractors and how much money they waste (whether ours of the customer's). Is there some reason I'm not seeing?
3) And just for fun, what do you do to be productive while waiting for an inspector. My list is below:
a) Return phone calls
b) Do what I can on an estimate (call for product pricing etc.)
c) Organize van
d) Use cell to go to mikeholt.com and ask questions ;-)
e) Call wife if I've been working long hours and reminder her what I look like.

 

[mgookin]

As someone who's been on every side of this equation I smiled as I read your post.

To narrow it down to half of a day for inspector arrival is better than you get in many places.

Are you required to be on site or do you choose to be on site?

What kind of projects are we talking about? Cookie cutter starter homes or hospitals? There's a very big difference and of course a different value to passing the inspection on each.

 

[Ponchik]

I usually leave minor things for the last inspection so I am not wasting 3-4 hours.

• Bonding of the cold/hot/gas
• Paint stucco or other finish material
• Label panel
• Install smokies
• Read books
• Call wife

At any rate the four hour inspection time is built into the pricing anyway.

 

[sandsnow]

For OP question number two, the short answer is it depends.
One example.
My stops are done in geographical logical order. Typically I don't want to go back and forth across town.
So, you call me and I tell you between 9 and 10. I have a couple stops I can do before I get to you. So then one those stops calls and cancels. I get to the other stop and the guy runs out and says I'm sorry but I'm not ready. So now I'm going to be at your job at 8:30. If I have your phone number kitchen can call you, but that doesn't change that I'm locked into schedule. It's 8:30 or tomorrow. I might have time to swing by on the way back into the office, but my schedule is already getting shot to heck.

Other things that mess with me are:

Getting everything all laid out and my boss comes and says Fred didn't show up today, so here's five more calls.

Getting everything laid out and my boss wants to meet at some job and the only time is the time I just gave to you.

The job before yours is a complete disaster and it takes much longer than I had planned and I'm already running a little behind.

Some days are a complete disaster and I have to focus on just making every stop.
Some days are easy and I can even go back to your job in the afternoon.

I will take your number and call you when I'm on my way.

So that's a little bit of my world.

 

[Ponchik]

Deleted
Double post

 

[Cow]

If I need to be on site for an inspection I just give the inspector a call and ask him to give me a heads up when he's on his way.

Do they not give you guys the inspectors cell phone numbers over there?

 

[sandsnow]

If I need to be on site for an inspection I just give the inspector a call and ask him to give me a heads up when he's on his way.

Do they not give you guys the inspectors cell phone numbers over there?

City staff will not give you my cell number. I am allowed to give my number to whomever I wish. There are people out there with my number, but they know not to abuse it.

If my cell number was public I would sometimes spend half the day on the phone. People will call you and ask you to come by a little later than we agreed. It just gets out of control. Inspectors have had to get a new cell number because they gave it out too freely.

When I call someone the number is blocked.

 

[sfav8r]

As someone who's been on every side of this equation I smiled as I read your post.

To narrow it down to half of a day for inspector arrival is better than you get in many places.

Are you required to be on site or do you choose to be on site?

What kind of projects are we talking about? Cookie cutter starter homes or hospitals? There's a very big difference and of course a different value to passing the inspection on each.

This jurisdiction requires an electrician to be there. They actually specify that it is to be the electrician who did the installation but that's not always possible. These projects (out of area) are usually an installation of specialized equipment where we can't really leave anything to do when we come back for the inspection. We install and test the equipment. After that there isn't much to do and until that's done we can't really call for the inspection. I guess where I lack understanding is if the window is from 12-4 that sort of implies to me one of two things is going on. Either at the time the inspector leaves the office he doesn't know if I'm his first stop or his last stop. Or he knows I'm not his first stop but can't be bothered to tell me so I could actually do something productive with the half hour or hour he takes at his first stop. Same is true for the other end of the schedule. If he knows I'm going to be his 2nd stop out of 5 why tell me 12-4. I just think with a little effort inspectors could keep from wasting other peoples time. Please keep in mind I am by no means talking about ALL inspectors or jurisdictions. Here in San Francisco it is quite common to get a one hour window which is terrific. I'm not even saying jurisdictions that have a 4 hour window necessarily don't care. I'm just saying I've thought about this because if you figure the average inspector has 12 inspections per day and the average contractor waits 2 hours that is a huge loss of productivity. Comcast cable used to have a 4 hour window that everyone complained about. If you asked them for a narrower time they would go on about how impossible it was. When DirectTv came around and starting taking their customers, sudden'y they can give a one hour window AND they will call you 15 minutes before they arrive. When it was in THEIR interest they managed to make it work.

 

[mgookin]

For OP question number two, the short answer is it depends.
One example.
My stops are done in geographical logical order. Typically I don't want to go back and forth across town.
So, you call me and I tell you between 9 and 10. I have a couple stops I can do before I get to you. So then one those stops calls and cancels. I get to the other stop and the guy runs out and says I'm sorry but I'm not ready. So now I'm going to be at your job at 8:30. If I have your phone number kitchen can call you, but that doesn't change that I'm locked into schedule. It's 8:30 or tomorrow. I might have time to swing by on the way back into the office, but my schedule is already getting shot to heck.

Other things that mess with me are:

Getting everything all laid out and my boss comes and says Fred didn't show up today, so here's five more calls.

Getting everything laid out and my boss wants to meet at some job and the only time is the time I just gave to you.

The job before yours is a complete disaster and it takes much longer than I had planned and I'm already running a little behind.

Some days are a complete disaster and I have to focus on just making every stop.
Some days are easy and I can even go back to your job in the afternoon.

I will take your number and call you when I'm on my way.

So that's a little bit of my world.

Add to that political emergencies, accidents, called to a fire scene, etc. There are infinite disruptions to the life of an inspector on the road every day.

As to requiring an electrician to be on site, I don't know how they compel that other than by local ordinance or policy. As to the four hour window, I still say that's better service than you get in many other places. I have even seen where they won't even assure you what day they will be there and they do in fact "roll over" inspections until yet another business day (which in my opinion is horrible service).

If you're looking for suggestions, find out the policy of each jurisdiction before you quote the work and factor that cost and scheduling into your project.

 

[Ponchik]

The local municipalities where I am, the worst case is 4 hours. Some jurisdictions will call you 7-8AM of the inspection day with a 2 hour time window.

I don't mind waiting for the inspector because they really can't dance to everyone's tunes.

 

[augie47]

I can only echo what the other posts relate.
By statue, we are required to make your inspection within 72 hours of the request.
In reality 90% of mine are completed the day following the request but, as noted above, there are so many things that affect the routine the time frame can easily slip by hours.
That said, we don't require your presence at the inspection. If you wish to be there the best I can normally do is give you a 4 hour "possible" window and call you when you are next.
As other have stated, the "unknowns" are the killer. That 1st inspection that you think is going to take 1/2 hour takes 2..
I'm sure some of the guys here can tell you that in some areas you are lucky to know what week the inspector will be there.

 

[petersonra]

governments and their employees really do not care much about whether they are inconveniencing you or not. they really believe that problems they cause the public just are not important, and they have guys with guns and badges to back that up.

your best bet is to just put on every quotation a line item for permits and inspections and make sure it reflects your actual experiences in that jurisdiction.

 

[kwired]

Well we have had a little of the daily life of an inspector posted - some of the same or similar deviations can come up for the contractor as well - we all just need to be able to work together. But I can see it getting more complicated in metropolitan areas, where in my region the inspectors know the installers (not just the EC's but those working for the EC's as well) fairly well. They also don't necessarily require every last detail to be finished when they do show up, but don't think that means you can fool them with your intentions either - they will not be as lenient in the future if they know you like to do such things. I live nearly 100 miles from the inspector that looks at majority of my work, if we are planning to meet at a specific time it will happen or phone calls will be made if there are plans changes. Rough in inspections get higher priority and I usually am still finishing up work when inspector arrives - and may not be completely finished when he leaves but rough in is still approved. Final inspections - usually is harder to schedule with customer (especially dwellings) then with inspector as often is done after they are occupying the premises. We often schedule a morning or afternoon and just hit as many non-finaled permits as we can fit in once in a while.

 

[Strathead]

governments and their employees really do not care much about whether they are inconveniencing you or not. they really believe that problems they cause the public just are not important, and they have guys with guns and badges to back that up.

your best bet is to just put on every quotation a line item for permits and inspections and make sure it reflects your actual experiences in that jurisdiction.

That is quite unfair and very harsh. There are certainly some officials who are that way, but I'll bet there are more of us who experience inspectors who do everything they can to work with us. When in the field I spent much of my inspection time making sure to develop relationships and now train my men the same way. If I really need to call and beg for a drive by inspection I can get it done in most areas. I just try to make sure that never happens.

I used to have a helper follow me during rough inspection. If the inspector said, you need more straps on that conduit, the ladder was out before he moved to the next room. I rarely failed, even if I needed to fix things. They just knew and know that I would.

 

[Strathead]

City staff will not give you my cell number. I am allowed to give my number to whomever I wish. There are people out there with my number, but they know not to abuse it.

If my cell number was public I would sometimes spend half the day on the phone. People will call you and ask you to come by a little later than we agreed. It just gets out of control. Inspectors have had to get a new cell number because they gave it out too freely.

When I call someone the number is blocked.

Your basic direction is what I am used to from inspection. As I indicated above. I have spent years developing relationships. If you tell me, "I'll sign the slip, make sure you fix it.", I am so appreciative of the consideration that I will personally make sure it is done beyond reproach! For that reason, I've gotten a final rough inspection signed for when I called for a 75% partial. What I do is always assume you, (the inspector) could swing back by any time day or night and just check.

Partly I am saying this because I wouldn't call you to ask you to come by later, I would just get as much done as I can and take my lumps.

 

[sandsnow]

Your basic direction is what I am used to from inspection. As I indicated above. I have spent years developing relationships. If you tell me, "I'll sign the slip, make sure you fix it.", I am so appreciative of the consideration that I will personally make sure it is done beyond reproach! For that reason, I've gotten a final rough inspection signed for when I called for a 75% partial. What I do is always assume you, (the inspector) could swing back by any time day or night and just check.

Partly I am saying this because I wouldn't call you to ask you to come by later, I would just get as much done as I can and take my lumps.

I can't go into how I handle every inspection, but here are some highlights:

Attitude. I am not the most important person on the job. I'm just one part of the team that is needed to get the job done.

Outlook. Everyone is a great guy the first time I meet them. Everyone one is greeted cheerfully, usually a bit of humor, and an explanation if I have a limited amount of time.

Helpfulness. Besides inspecting what ready right now, I go over the plans and look over the site. If there is anything that might be a problem later on I will tell you. I will also tell you which other trades may affect future inspections. I inspect the job which not always limited to the work you do. The IT guy messing with the firewall is an example. I will write on the correction that your portion of the work has passed but the walls still cannot be closed.

Trust. There is much to say here, but here's one thing. I won't hold you to a complete installation for UG inspection. As long as you have the trench dug and have started installing conduit, I will sign it off. In fact I would rather you call me out before you're done to catch any mistakes. I had more than one guy say carp when I told him he's going to end up with more than 360 in a conduit run. On big jobs I'll most likely tell you to just keep going, but just call me everyday until you're done. BUT you have to call first. If you put it in and bury it and then call, I will make you dig it up 99.9% of the time.

Purpose. I'm there to make sure the job goes in per Code and in this City per plan. I don't need to be a complete #### to do that. We can actually get along quite well.

Empathy. I care about your problems, but only up to a point. I try to serve everyone fairly. When you call and want am and the next guy calls and wants pm, somebody will be disappointed if the two jobs are in the same corner of town. That next guy might be driving in from far away and be getting home late, but I can't be playing musical inspections and changing times to please everybody. I do what I can to let you know if I'm going to be late (if I got your number). If it's a busy day I'll tell you and the inspection will be short and sweet. The discussion if needed, will have to done another time.

 

[gadfly56]

Most inspectors, by a long margin, have been courteous and helpful. Some guys in NJ work for as many as five (5) jurisdictions, part time in all of them. It's a miracle they can give you which half of the day they'll be showing up. I spoke with one fire sub code about a project and we were trying to figure out if he could get it done a little earlier. He explained that he was in only Tuesdays and Thursdays. If I gave him three days notice, he'd know on Tuesday that he'd be seeing me on Thursday and could drive directly from his previous jurisdiction to the job site. Otherwise, if I called Wednesday, he had to go into the office to see that I was on the schedule and then come out. The only jurisdiction in my experience that will give you a definite time is Hoboken.

 

[kwired]

I have a good enough trust with the EI that covers the area where I do the most of my work that on occasion if he can't make it to rough in in his allotted time to get there he will tell me it is ok to cover it up. But he still may come when he can and check what he can - he just won't make me uncover anything solely for the purpose of inspecting it.

 

[jaylectricity]

It varies from town to town in Mass. Some towns I can call the inspector on his cell phone and if he's free he'll come right over, or we agree to meet at lunch or after work. Other towns require a phone call during office hours then they give you a date and/or time. Sometimes this means later in the day, but some towns are a day or two out. It's tricky because in those towns you want to call for inspection the day you think you'll be finished or even the day before you think you'll be finished. Most are a two hour window, but some are a four hour window. Most of the towns don't require the electrician to be there, but if I don't do a lot of work in that town I prefer to be there to smooth over any gray areas.

On rough, I leave the phone and cable for last since the inspector doesn't care about that. Or I start on some of the old work stuff or getting the circuits into the panel. Or I make calls to schedule the following week. Or I discuss some of the stuff that will be happening on finish.

On finish there are times I simply just sit in my truck listening to sports radio. I work by myself, so I'm not really losing money unless I actually lose a job because I can't get to it sooner. But that has only happened a couple times in the last decade. Most people are willing to wait for me.

 

[mgookin]

I was in school at the National Fire Academy (United States Fire Administration) and one of my classmates was the Oklahoma State Fire Marshal.

He leaves his office Monday morning for a trek around the state. He gets back on Friday.

And when did you want that inspection?