Diagonal Conduit / Wire

[lakee911]

How does everyone feel about diagonal runs of conduit and / or wire? Most of it that I see is above drop ceilings, but not always.

I would argue that it doesn't comply with neat workmanship, but it seems to pass.

I know why Contractors do it, to save money, but it's very unsightly.

What's the opinion?

Thx

 

[infinity]

Depending on the conditions I prefer to square things off especially on exposed conduit work.

IMO, neat and workman like is so vague that it's completely unenforceable.

 

[iMuse97]

How does everyone feel about diagonal runs of conduit and / or wire? Most of it that I see is above drop ceilings, but not always.

I would argue that it doesn't comply with neat workmanship, but it seems to pass.

I know why Contractors do it, to save money, but it's very unsightly.

What's the opinion?

Thx

Don't like it; I would only do it under a pour in certain situations. I have seen it done for large diameter conduit, where a kick will avoid two more 90 deg. bends. As far as 1/2" or 3/4", not a good practice. Because you inevitably mess up anyone who adds something else after you--and that guy could be you if you're any good.

 

[JLEECME]

Many of the engineers in my area actually specify that conduits installed above a grid ceiling be installed in direct a line as possible, although they're usually surprised that it is in there spec. I've also had architects and commissioning agents push for "direct a line as possible" installation on LEED projects. I don't recall anywhere that points were awarded but it made them feel better we were using less raw materials.

 

[lakee911]

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I'll add something to our specs to prevent diagnals except in concrete, underground, large conduits, etc. I do think it makes sense for LEED.

Jason

 

[iMuse97]

Many of the engineers in my area actually specify that conduits installed above a grid ceiling be installed in direct a line as possible, although they're usually surprised that it is in there spec. I've also had architects and commissioning agents push for "direct a line as possible" installation on LEED projects. I don't recall anywhere that points were awarded but it made them feel better we were using less raw materials.

I've seen that spec. now that you mention it, and always assumed that I was following it if I installed the conduits to follow the beams or perpendicular to them, and didn't run 300' extra for no particular reason.

 

[peter d]

If it's above a ceiling nobody is ever going to see it except tradesmen working up there, so who cares? :-?

There is a good case to be made for runs as the crow flies assuming specs allow it - shorter circuits means less wire length which means less voltage drop. So it may be visually unappealing but it's a better installation functionally speaking.

 

[jaylectricity]

Don't like it; I would only do it under a pour in certain situations. I have seen it done for large diameter conduit, where a kick will avoid two more 90 deg. bends. As far as 1/2" or 3/4", not a good practice. Because you inevitably mess up anyone who adds something else after you--and that guy could be you if you're any good.

Which you're probably not if you're running 1/2" EMT diagonally across a garage.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If it's above a ceiling nobody is ever going to see it except tradesmen working up there, so who cares? :-?

There is a good case to be made for runs as the crow flies assuming specs allow it - shorter circuits means less wire length which means less voltage drop. So it may be visually unappealing but it's a better installation functionally speaking.

I would tend to agree. If nickles and dimes are getting you guys jobs now, the difference between 120' of flex plus wire or 100' of flex plus wire, shorter runs, less labor time. It can start to add up.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I have worked for both types of contractors. When wiring house in romex unless they care to pay extra they get it cheap way simply because residential is usually a price issue. Have never had a commercial company want anything but neat and straight unless its an addition that will be too costly in time to be removing ceiling tiles. And that will likely be in MC.

My preferance is neat even if not seen but it comes with higher cost and will actually make a voltage drop higher.
With the high price of materials i would ask the customer what they want. Quality usually cost more in life.

Wife hates it when i go into a building and pick it apart for sloppy work. Often see installs that say HOME OWNER or HANDYMAN. They usually also have violations that can be easily seen.

Bottom line is i do what the man with the check book wants.

 

[jaylectricity]

Wife hates it when i go into a building and pick it apart for sloppy work.

Haha, my girlfriend doesn't hate it, but she laughs at me when we're at one of those restaurants that just paint all the stuff that would normally be hidden by ceiling tile and I'm picking apart all the electrical work.

 

[electricmanscott]

If it's above a ceiling nobody is ever going to see it except tradesmen working up there, so who cares? :-?

There is a good case to be made for runs as the crow flies assuming specs allow it - shorter circuits means less wire length which means less voltage drop. So it may be visually unappealing but it's a better installation functionally speaking.

Don't even start to inject logic into the argument.

 

[peter d]

Don't even start to inject logic into the argument.

Sorry.

I don't know what came over me. :roll:

 

[electricmanscott]

Sorry.

I don't know what came over me. :roll:

**** :grin: ****

 

[220/221]

Commercial/pipe should generally be run with the building to keep it clean for future work.

Romex in a covered space can go diagonal.

 

[Cow]

Diagonal pipe work is a good way to hose the next guy when he needs to run conduit. There's already limited space above a drop cieling even when the conduits/water pipes/gas lines are squared off. But if it helps you get the bid....:roll:

 

[lakee911]

Searching led me to this article: http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_dont_pulled_wrong/

Which says,

Keep in mind that you should always install cables parallel or perpendicular to exterior and interior walls. This is required by the NEC, and is good trade practice.

I think we said it was good to do under most cases, but isn't required.

 

[petersonra]

How does everyone feel about diagonal runs of conduit and / or wire? Most of it that I see is above drop ceilings, but not always.

I would argue that it doesn't comply with neat workmanship, but it seems to pass.

I know why Contractors do it, to save money, but it's very unsightly.

What's the opinion?

Thx

I worry more about safe and usable over aesthetics. especially where it is mostly concealed or not real visible.

 

[Hendrix]

Many of the engineers in my area actually specify that conduits installed above a grid ceiling be installed in direct a line as possible, although they're usually surprised that it is in there spec. I've also had architects and commissioning agents push for "direct a line as possible" installation on LEED projects. I don't recall anywhere that points were awarded but it made them feel better we were using less raw materials.

Darn engineers. Some one will ask "who made this mess" and the wrath will fall on the installer.

 

[cycotcskir]

This takes care of it

Neat and Workmanlike Manner: Executed and/or installed in a skilled manner;
e.g., plumb, level, square, in line, undamaged and without marring adjacent work. Conduits shall be run
parallel to and/or perpendicular to the building structure.
In addition, Electrical work should be installed in accordance with ANSI/NECA 1-2006:
Standard for Good Workmanship in Electrical Construction.

Soon to become adopted in my little neck of the woods.

I have always gotten a slight case of the red a$$ whenever I heard someone say "It's doesn't matter if it's in a ceiling", "Can't see it from my house", or "Close enough for government work".