discusion at work

[iwire]

Charlie why not start a new thread about it instead of throwing vague hints every time the subject comes up?:smile:


Layout your feelings clearly in a new thread, I for one have no desire at all to go back and read the old threads.

 

[buzzbar]

Go to 220.14 (I).
Duplex receptacles are to be rated at 180va EACH. 15A x 120V = 1,800W. 1,800/180 = 10. So I usually put ten receptacles on a 15A circuit.

Andrew

 

[bobsherwood]

I never put more than eight outlets on even a 20 amp circuit. Just to be sure.... Office space and a lot of little refrig... toes are cold I need a heater.... no telling what might be brought to work!

 

[resistance]

A 20a breaker can actually hold more than 20 amps. It will not magically trip at 20.0000001 amps, but the higher the amperage goes, the quicker it trips. 21 amps may never trip it, 22 amps may take 4 hours, 23 amps may take an hour, 24 amps may take 10 minutes.... It's called a trip rating curve or something like that.

To add: A circuit breaker does not trip on current alone. Current, ambient heat, and the conductor will determine when the bimetallic element trips.

 

[charlie b]

Charlie why not start a new thread about it instead of throwing vague hints every time the subject comes up?

I just cringe when someone says, as though it were indisputable fact, that there is a limit to the number of receptacles on a circuit.

Layout your feelings clearly in a new thread, I for one have no desire at all to go back and read the old threads.

Been there; done that. Why should I do the work over again? If someone wants to know my opinion, I have stated it already, and they can look it up.

But in short summary, articles 210 and 220 do not cross reference each other. One has to do with calculating loads, and the other with creating branch circuits. I don’t have to use 220 in my design process for creating branch circuits.

Perhaps I can help develop a FAQ on the subject. Someone else would have to develop the opposing position, and we can post both opinions on the forum.

 

[resistance]

I just cringe when someone says, as though it were indisputable fact, that there is a limit to the number of receptacles on a circuit.

Been there; done that. Why should I do the work over again? If someone wants to know my opinion, I have stated it already, and they can look it up.

But in short summary, articles 210 and 220 do not cross reference each other. One has to do with calculating loads, and the other with creating branch circuits. I don?t have to use 220 in my design process for creating branch circuits.

Perhaps I can help develop a FAQ on the subject. Someone else would have to develop the opposing position, and we can post both opinions on the forum.

Interesting! Hope to see the discussion posted!

 

[LarryFine]

But in short summary, articles 210 and 220 do not cross reference each other. One has to do with calculating loads, and the other with creating branch circuits. I don?t have to use 220 in my design process for creating branch circuits.

Perhaps I can help develop a FAQ on the subject. Someone else would have to develop the opposing position, and we can post both opinions on the forum.

I can't help you there, Charlie, because I agree with your position. :smile:

 

[neutral]

I never put more than eight outlets on even a 20 amp circuit. Just to be sure.... Office space and a lot of little refrig... toes are cold I need a heater.... no telling what might be brought to work!

I only use 20 amp receptacles and 20 amp circuits and never over 5 receptacles on a circuit. I don?t install 15 amp receptacles or 15 amp circuits feeding receptacles. You get what you pay for and you pay for what you get I tell people if you are looking at the bottom line then don't waste my time, life is too short.

 

[iwire]

I only use 20 amp receptacles and 20 amp circuits and never over 5 receptacles on a circuit. I don?t install 15 amp receptacles or 15 amp circuits feeding receptacles. You get what you pay for and you pay for what you get I tell people if you are looking at the bottom line then don't waste my time, life is too short.

Your paying for an extra slot in the face of the duplex that will never be used. The current carrying parts in the same grade and maker 15 or 20 amp receptacle are the same.

You can get junk 20 amp duplex receptacles and top quality 15 amp duplex receptacles, the ampere rating has nothing to do with quality.

 

[neutral]

Your paying for an extra slot in the face of the duplex that will never be used. The current carrying parts in the same grade and maker 15 or 20 amp receptacle are the same.

You can get junk 20 amp duplex receptacles and top quality 15 amp duplex receptacles, the ampere rating has nothing to do with quality.

I only use Industrial grade receptacles

 

[electricmanscott]

I only use 20 amp receptacles and 20 amp circuits and never over 5 receptacles on a circuit. I don?t install 15 amp receptacles or 15 amp circuits feeding receptacles. You get what you pay for and you pay for what you get I tell people if you are looking at the bottom line then don't waste my time, life is too short.

You may get what you pay for but what your customers are paying for is a waste of money.

 

[iwire]

I only use Industrial grade receptacles

What ever floats your boat, :smile:to me that would be a waste in dweling units, can you even get them in TR?

 

[markstg]

But I will say that I don't believe there is any limit to the number of receptacles you can put on a circuit. I will add that it does not matter whether you are talking residential or not.

Charlie....How do you determine the load value to place on the receptacle branch circuits in the panel schedule? Such as Number of recepts x 180, 80% of Circuit Breaker Value or something else.

Thanks

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Any time I see a breaker loaded past 80% it usually only last a few years,,,,,,I've never found an exception to this rule. If you load a breaker more that 80%,,,,,it shortens the life of the breaker

 

[iwire]

Any time I see a breaker loaded past 80% it usually only last a few years,,,,,,I've never found an exception to this rule. If you load a breaker more that 80%,,,,,it shortens the life of the breaker

Do you mean loading the breaker beyond 80% continuously or non-continuously?

One is code compliant the other is not.

 

[electricmanscott]

Any time I see a breaker loaded past 80% it usually only last a few years,,,,,,I've never found an exception to this rule. If you load a breaker more that 80%,,,,,it shortens the life of the breaker

How do you know you've never found an exception to this? Have you checked every breaker that has ever been loaded more than 80%? :-?

 

[charlie b]

Any time I see a breaker loaded past 80% it usually only last a few years. . . .

Please note that there is a big difference between a breaker actually seeing a current that high, and a breaker for which the calculated load is that high.

 

[charlie b]

Charlie....How do you determine the load value to place on the receptacle branch circuits in the panel schedule?

What I actually do is to assign (i.e., on the Panel Schedule) a value of 180 VA to each duplex receptacle. Then I make sure that the total ?assigned? load on any 20 amp receptacle circuit does not exceed 1920 VA. Thus, I never put more than 10 duplex receptacles on a 20 amp circuit. Most of the time, the number is smaller than that.

Please note, however, that we are now discussing design considerations. Nothing in the NEC would prevent me from designing a 20 amp branch circuit (residential or otherwise) that had 50 duplex receptacles.

 

[iwire]

Nothing in the NEC would prevent me from designing a 20 amp branch circuit (residential or otherwise) that had 50 duplex receptacles.

Other then a red tag from the inspector.:grin:

I am even willing to admit you may be correct as far as the wording in the NEC but that is not the commonly accepted interpretation by the Handbook, or the IAEIs,:smile:

 

[charlie b]

Other then a red tag from the inspector.:grin:

I said, "Nothing in the NEC would prevent . . . ."

. . . but that is not the commonly accepted interpretation by the Handbook, or the IAEIs,:smile:

Nor is it my common practice, as I said earlier.