Dish & Garb Together

[tryinghard]

NO - A duplex is two recepts, the total for both would be 16A. See table 210.21(B)(2)

I just spun out; and I want to see it as you do, but if I have 10A in one recept and 7 in the other where in 210.21(B)(2) is "both" stated. A recept cannot have more than 16A plugged into it and it wouldn't. Like I said I just spun out [UGH]

 

[rwreuter]

A 20A circuit is not a foolish risk at all with know appliance loads; it just is whats needed.

but that is the problem, how often do you know the loads? if it is the first time you have wired in that development (higher end or even mid for that matter) or it is a custom you don't know.

if you go and ask the super "hey, do you know what kind of dishwasher and disposal are going in this house" he is going to give one strange look.

i am building my house (wiring it too) and if you ask me what kind of dishwasher and disposal are going in i couldn't tell you. at that stage of the game most, if not all, don't know what those loads will be.

standard trac homes and yes they will know, just look next door.

 

[tryinghard]

but that is the problem, how often do you know the loads?

I appreciate your standards but I do believe we should have the known loads every time regardless type of construction. This thread is pressing for compliant installations, show how I/we may be in violation, what's your code support?

 

[rwreuter]

I appreciate your standards but I do believe we should have the known loads every time regardless type of construction. This thread is pressing for compliant installations, show how I/we may be in violation, what's your code support?

not sure i understand your question for code support. support for what, known load before wiring it. doesn't exist. there is no requirement to know what the load is before you wire it. that is why "we" always used 2 20amp circuits. you never got into any problems.

code wise, use one 20amp or 2 15amp circuits, that is all that is required.

 

[e57]

code wise, use one 20amp or 2 15amp circuits, that is all that is required.

You could put it on one 15.... But experiance tells me not to - what is known about appliances at one stage of a job - are subject to change in my world at least... Some of those changes I have come to expect - like the possibilty of an insta hot...

 

[rwreuter]

You could put it on one 15.... But experiance tells me not to - what is known about appliances at one stage of a job - are subject to change in my world at least... Some of those changes I have come to expect - like the possibilty of an insta hot...

i knew there was something that i forgot, that crazy insta hot. if you do one 15 or even a 20 amp circuit you will be toast if they add an insta hot. i have had that happen to many times to count. have you read the specs on those? 1300 watts/10amps, that even pushes using the 20 amp dedicated disposal or dishwasher circuit.

all i can see is a fully finished house and a customer wants a insta hot, OMG, just the thought of fishing one to the sink area suks. if it is there you are in like flin.

my boss used tell me, one experience journeyman far out weighs a hard charging young journeyman. i never really believed him until i got into the money/management aspect of it.

 

[infinity]

NO - A duplex is two recepts, the total for both would be 16A. See table 210.21(B)(2)

210.21(B)(2) does not say that you would add the two receptacles together for a max of 16 amps on a duplex. It says a receptacle which would be one of the two having a maximum of 16 amps. A 10 amp washer and a 10 amp gas dryer can be plugged into one duplex on a 20 amp circuit.

 

[jaylectricity]

NO - A duplex is two recepts, the total for both would be 16A. See table 210.21(B)(2)

The code reads: Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, a receptacle shall not supply a total cord-and-plug-connected load in excess of the maximum specified in Table 210.21(B)(2).

So, it's not the total connected loads on the circuit, it's the total connected load to that receptacle.

 

[jaylectricity]

Oh wow, I guess I had that tab open for a while before replying. The post I quoted was the last one when I started replying.

 

[jaylectricity]

all i can see is a fully finished house and a customer wants a insta hot, OMG, just the thought of fishing one to the sink area suks. if it is there you are in like flin.

So run the extra circuit and leave it in the box. You can still get some money for the install.

And also, the expression is "In like Flynn" as in Errol Flynn.

 

[e57]

210.21(B)(2) does not say that you would add the two receptacles together for a max of 16 amps on a duplex. It says a receptacle which would be one of the two having a maximum of 16 amps. A 10 amp washer and a 10 amp gas dryer can be plugged into one duplex on a 20 amp circuit.

Hmmmm.... I stand corrected, now I wonder where i got that in my head from????

 

[infinity]

Hmmmm.... I stand corrected, now I wonder where i got that in my head from????

210.21 with it's various tables and requirements, is highly confusing. It took quite a while for me to get that one section through my thick head. :roll:

 

[LarryFine]

if you go and ask the super "hey, do you know what kind of dishwasher and disposal are going in this house" he is going to give one strange look.

I'd respond to the stare with "Well, let me know when you find out, so I can wire the circuits."

i am building my house (wiring it too) and if you ask me what kind of dishwasher and disposal are going in i couldn't tell you. at that stage of the game most, if not all, don't know what those loads will be.

Same response, and likewise for HVAC, cooking appliances, etc.


"Otherwise, if you like (and pay for, of course), I can wire for worst-case, and not hold you up."

That, of course, means #6 instead of #8, #10 instead of #12, etc.

 

[e57]

if you go and ask the super "hey, do you know what kind of dishwasher and disposal are going in this house" he is going to give one strange look.

Depends on when you ask... Often at the begining of rough I'll be provided with 3 model numbers - one of which is the current choice on the appliance schedule - or none at all. Right at my rough inspection they have submittals signed, already purchased one and it's on it's way - scheduled to be delivered...

 

[e57]

all i can see is a fully finished house and a customer wants a insta hot, OMG, just the thought of fishing one to the sink area suks. if it is there you are in like flin.

Oh - and when they do ask for it... Don't make it look too easy. :grin:

Look scared, then take a cup of water under the sink - bitch/moan - dabb some water on your head then come out an hour later, and say "this is gonna take a while...." Then go down to the panel and hide/sleep for a while.... A few hours... Bill accordingly. By all means make them pay...

 

[LarryFine]

Nah, not me. Time passes more quickly when I'm having fun, and wiring is still fun for me.

 

[tryinghard]

Dishwasher - 422 - marked rating max load labeled
Garb - 422 & 430 - Table 430.248 – ? = 9.8A leaves 10A for the dishwasher
Cords - 422.16 & 400
Circuit - 422.10(B), 210.23, 334 & 310.16 – 12/2 romex complies
Duplex receptacle - 210.21 – 15A complies
Breaker - 422.11 & 430.53(B) – one 20A complies
Any mistakes?

 

[GSXR600]

Ive seen people take 1 20 amp circuit to a three way switch and off one traveler supply the dish washer and off the other supply the disposal so that there would simutaniously work.

 

[rwreuter]

Dishwasher - 422 - marked rating max load labeled
Garb - 422 & 430 - Table 430.248 ? ? = 9.8A leaves 10A for the dishwasher
Cords - 422.16 & 400
Circuit - 422.10(B), 210.23, 334 & 310.16 ? 12/2 romex complies
Duplex receptacle - 210.21 ? 15A complies
Breaker - 422.11 & 430.53(B) ? one 20A complies
Any mistakes?

no mistakes....have at it

 

[LarryFine]

Dishwasher - 422 - marked rating max load labeled
Garb - 422 & 430 - Table 430.248 ? ? = 9.8A leaves 10A for the dishwasher
Cords - 422.16 & 400
Circuit - 422.10(B), 210.23, 334 & 310.16 ? 12/2 romex complies
Duplex receptacle - 210.21 ? 15A complies
Breaker - 422.11 & 430.53(B) ? one 20A complies
Any mistakes?

no mistakes....have at it

"Trying hard" finally paid off, eh?