Dishwasher outlet

[jusme123]

If they're plugged into a receptacle using a cord, yes.

Am I liable for anything someone else plugs into any receptacle?

In short, I would think your not, but if it is equipment that is stationary (water heater, furnace, water pumps, etc.) than I would think the power wiring to the device/ unit/ equipment would fall on the EC.

most contracts, or at least the ones I have been associated with, the EC is responsible for power wiring of equipment (control work - some of the time separate). Without the cord connected, would that be similar to wiring a motor controller disc and not wiring the motor (connecting L1, L2, L3 and leaving T1, T2, T3 up to a plumber)?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Fingers will point at you as person who installed the cord even if you didn't. Was part of your job so good luck saying it was the plumber.

 

[480sparky]

In short, I would think your not, but if it is equipment that is stationary (water heater, furnace, water pumps, etc.) than I would think the power wiring to the device/ unit/ equipment would fall on the EC.

most contracts, or at least the ones I have been associated with, the EC is responsible for power wiring of equipment (control work - some of the time separate). Without the cord connected, would that be similar to wiring a motor controller disc and not wiring the motor (connecting L1, L2, L3 and leaving T1, T2, T3 up to a plumber)?

If it PLUGS IN, my responsibility stops at THE RECEPTACLE.

If you have L1, L2, etc, then it ISN'T cord connected.

If my responsibility doesn't stop at the receptacle, then every electrician is legally liable for every TV, lamp, computer, stereo, waterbed heater, range, answering machine, vacuum cleaner, oscillating fan, cell phone charger, dryer, etc etc etc ever made.

 

[glene77is]

the cord/NM-B whip
I've always installed a receptacle in the baseboard area behind the dishwasher
Maybe an MC whip and a lock out device for the CB is the way to go.

A/A,
Seems a simple subject, and we have 104 posts!

I have never seen a "NM-B whip" wonder if it is 'code'.
I don't recall ever seeing a Dishwasher Receptical behind a dishwasher.

Anyway, you know about running a SJOO cord/plug
and putting a receptical under the sink.

I have always run a MWBC , split the receptical,
ran a switch loop up for the Disposal,
plugged in the Dishwasher on the live side.

 

[glene77is]

If he does not know more than that i am glad he packed up and i would not pay him.

Jim,
I did not pay him,
and the HO called his company; they sent another dude.
I have not heard any more about it .

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

If it PLUGS IN, my responsibility stops at THE RECEPTACLE.

If you have L1, L2, etc, then it ISN'T cord connected.

If my responsibility doesn't stop at the receptacle, then every electrician is legally liable for every TV, lamp, computer, stereo, waterbed heater, range, answering machine, vacuum cleaner, oscillating fan, cell phone charger, dryer, etc etc etc ever made.

You can not limit your liabilty by simply saying it.
If the DW cord was part of your contract then it is your problem to see that it was done right. By allowing the plumber to do it your still just as liable as if you left a first week greeny do it.
If you don't intend the installing of the cord to be part of your contract then you better state that on contract. Any electrical must be done by an electrician. A DW is not at all similar to a TV or appliances that with a cord.
The fact that it requires an extra trip is all part of your job.

 

[480sparky]

You can not limit your liabilty by simply saying it.

Sure I can. It's called putting it in writing.

If the DW cord was part of your contract then it is your problem to see that it was done right. By allowing the plumber to do it your still just as liable as if you left a first week greeny do it.
If you don't intend the installing of the cord to be part of your contract then you better state that on contract.

My contracts usually state I do not install appliances.

Any electrical must be done by an electrician.

As I stated before, cords are routinely installed in ranges and dryers by the appliance installation crews. It's not an NEC issue, so it's not an AHJ issue either.

A DW is not at all similar to a TV or appliances that with a cord.

A cord is a cord is a cord. If you want to say electricians are legally liable for anything and everything that ever gets plugged in, then I'll let you pay for the 100,000% increase in your premium.

The fact that it requires an extra trip is all part of your job.

Not mine. I don't install appliances. It's that simple.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

"Not mine. I don't install appliances. It's that simple. "

Down here if you tell the builder you won't put cord on the DW or PIG they simply will not use you. Just who do you suggest he gets to do it if not you.
You say its not your job, and are you suggesting it's the plumbers job ?
Someone qualified needs to do it.

So you pass up microwaves ? Easy $50

 

[480sparky]

...........So you pass up microwaves ? Easy $50

I won't even start my truck for twice that, let alone install a nuke for that.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I have never seen a "NM-B whip" wonder if it is 'code'.

I have, when the dishwasher is hardwired.

I don't recall ever seeing a Dishwasher Receptical behind a dishwasher.

It is very common around here.

Anyway, you know about running a SJOO cord/plug
and putting a receptical under the sink.

What about when the DW is in an island or not next to the sink?

 

[LarryFine]

Now that I think about it, I have never used a cord for a dishwasher, and only one or two disposers; the rest were always hard-wired.

 

[ActionDave]

I've never hard wired one and only seen the set up for a hard wire installation once while helping another sparky.

He had this big 'ole coil of romex in the wall of the kitchen. I ran it to a box and cut away the extra. He came back in the kitchen later and asked me "What the #%$$ did you do that for?"

Oops!

 

[hurk27]

Here we use a receptacle for all disposals/dishwashers, and we do them the same as most, put in a handy box in the sink cabinet or any cabinet next to the dishwasher, with a split receptacles 1/2 switched. a few years ago most disposals came without a cord, but now all our contractors buy the ones with a cord when we told them we would stop charging to put a cord on them.

As far as the comments about putting a cord on water heaters, furnaces, I have never seen a furnace that would allow a cord and plug connection? and as far a water heaters go, maybe a very small under cabinet type but I don't think any larger ones are listed for cord and plug (not gas)

 

[macmikeman]

Here we use a receptacle for all disposals/dishwashers, and we do them the same as most, put in a handy box in the sink cabinet or any cabinet next to the dishwasher, with a split receptacles 1/2 switched. a few years ago most disposals came without a cord, but now all our contractors buy the ones with a cord when we told them we would stop charging to put a cord on them.

As far as the comments about putting a cord on water heaters, furnaces, I have never seen a furnace that would allow a cord and plug connection? and as far a water heaters go, maybe a very small under cabinet type but I don't think any larger ones are listed for cord and plug (not gas)

It is not allowed where I live now, but where I came from "Lee County Florida" way back when in the seventies, it was a common way to wire water heaters- knock out a 3/4" ko in the h20 heater cover, put a three wire dryer whip, and a three wire dryer flush receptacle outlet in the wall. And we used to have inspections on all the jobs. It was explained to me by senior co workers back then, that the outlet/ cord combination was meant to serve as the disconnecting means. I was fresh out of vocational school, and hardly understood the code and was pretty much unfamiliar with most of it then. Moved over here and water heater disconnecting means was not enforced so direct wire connections were the norm until about 2007 or 2008. Now locally required to do it the right way. Should have been enforced per code all along. I bet they canned the outlet/ cord method in Lee a long time ago as well... I use a GE 30 amp rated pull out disco ($8 bucks at HD) , or sometimes a CH 70 amp non metallic 2 circuit load center and a 2 pole 30 amp breaker in it.

 

[mxslick]

Here we use a receptacle for all disposals/dishwashers, and we do them the same as most, put in a handy box in the sink cabinet or any cabinet next to the dishwasher, with a split receptacles 1/2 switched. a few years ago most disposals came without a cord, but now all our contractors buy the ones with a cord when we told them we would stop charging to put a cord on them.

As far as the comments about putting a cord on water heaters, furnaces, I have never seen a furnace that would allow a cord and plug connection? and as far a water heaters go, maybe a very small under cabinet type but I don't think any larger ones are listed for cord and plug (not gas)

Furnaces are REQUIRED to be cord and plug connected here in So. Cali. Most installers just install a cord at the jobsite. I have yet to see one come from the factory with a cord, and AFAIK they are listed for use with a cord set. (If not then our locals are requiring a violation.)

 

[NolaTigaBait]

Furnaces are REQUIRED to be cord and plug connected here in So. Cali. Most installers just install a cord at the jobsite. I have yet to see one come from the factory with a cord, and AFAIK they are listed for use with a cord set. (If not then our locals are requiring a violation.)

I've also never seen a furnace that is listed to be used with a cord and plug...Maybe they are out there...

 

[M. D.]

Originally Posted by hurk27 As far as the comments about putting a cord on water heaters, furnaces, I have never seen a furnace that would allow a cord and plug connection? and as far a water heaters go, maybe a very small under cabinet type but I don't think any larger ones are listed for cord and plug (not gas)

I'd say 422.16 prohibits it

422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the
connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange
or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration
or (2) to facilitate the removal or disconnection of appliances
that are fastened in place, where the fastening means
and mechanical connections are specifically designed to
permit ready removal for maintenance or repair and the
appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection.

 

[hurk27]

It is not allowed where I live now, but where I came from "Lee County Florida" way back when in the seventies, it was a common way to wire water heaters- knock out a 3/4" ko in the h20 heater cover, put a three wire dryer whip, and a three wire dryer flush receptacle outlet in the wall. And we used to have inspections on all the jobs. It was explained to me by senior co workers back then, that the outlet/ cord combination was meant to serve as the disconnecting means. I was fresh out of vocational school, and hardly understood the code and was pretty much unfamiliar with most of it then. Moved over here and water heater disconnecting means was not enforced so direct wire connections were the norm until about 2007 or 2008. Now locally required to do it the right way. Should have been enforced per code all along. I bet they canned the outlet/ cord method in Lee a long time ago as well... I use a GE 30 amp rated pull out disco ($8 bucks at HD) , or sometimes a CH 70 amp non metallic 2 circuit load center and a 2 pole 30 amp breaker in it.

Wow the last job I did in Lee county (back in the "70s") was the two 10 story condos on the north side of US41 bridge (original one) over the river, I was working for B&R electric off pondsetta, that brings back some memorys:grin:

 

[iwire]

Furnaces are REQUIRED to be cord and plug connected here in So. Cali.

You sure it is required?

I am thinking more of local tradtion than requirement.

 

[bobserrano]

UL Standard 749 deals with installation for household dishwashers and requires the receptacle to be located in the cabinet or wall adjacent to the cabinet in which the dishwasher is installed. See section (7.3.2 a) If this a UL listed dishwasher then it should be installed per the listing instructions



UL Standard UL-749
UL 749
Household Dishwashers

7.3 Installation instructions

7.3.1A Where the installation instructions for a built-in dishwasher specifies
that the appliance is able to be connected by means of a power-supply cord
not already attached to the appliance by the manufacturer, the instructions
shall specify that a power-supply cord kit marked for use with dishwashers
shall be used. The cord kit shall comply wi th Clause 25.2A. The part or model
number of the power-supply cord kit shall be included in the appliance
installation instructions.
7.3.2 The installation instructions provided with a cord-connected undercounter appliance shall include
the following instructions or equivalent information:
a) the power-supply receptacle for the appliance shall be installed in a cabinet or on a wall
adjacent to the undercounter space in which the appliance is to be installed;
b) there shall be an opening through the partition between the compartments specified in (a) that
is large enough for the attachment plug to pass through. The longest dimension of the opening
shall not be more than 38 mm;
c) the edges of the opening specified in (b) shall, if the partition is wood, be smooth and rounded,
or, if the partition is metal, be covered with an edge protector provided for this purpose b y the
manufacturer; and
d) care shall be exercised, when the appliance is installed or removed, to reduce the likelihood of
damage to the power-supply cord.

25.2 Cord-connected appliances
25.2.1 The power-supply cord of an appliance provided with a means for grounding shall include an
equipment-bonding conductor and shall terminate in a grounding-type attachment plug.

25.2.4 For a cord-connected built-in appliance:
a) the flexible cord shall be Type S, SJT, SPT-3, or the equivalent; and
b) the length of the flexible cord shall be 0.9 ? 1.2 m, measured from the face of the
attachment plug to the plane of the rear of the appliance.

25.2.5 The power-supply cord shall be attached permanently to the
appliance or shall be in the form of a separate cord supplied as part of a
power-supply cord kit with means for connection to the appliance. The
power-supply cord kit shall comply with Clause 25.2A.
25.2.6 The ampacity of the cord and the current rating of the fittings shall not be less than the current
rating of the appliance.
For an appliance rated more than 15 A, the current rating of the attachment plug shall not be less than
125% of the current rating of the appliance.
A 20 A plug shall be acceptable for an appliance rated not more than 4000 W at 240 V. The attachment
plug shall be acceptable for use at a voltage equal to the rated voltage of the appliance.
.

25.2A Power-supply cord kits for use with undercounter or built-in
dishwashers
25.2A.1 A power-supply cord kit intended for the installation of an
undercounter or built-in dishwasher shall include the following:
a) power-supp ly cord, strain-relief means, and push-back relief that complies
with Clause 25.2;
b) a part or model number marked on the power-supply cord kit package, or
in the kit installation instructions;
c) installation instructions; and
d) grounding instructions in accordance with Clause 7.2.2.4(a).
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