Do Hard Wired 240V Boat Lift Motors require a GFCI breaker?

[davedottcom]

Hello, it's been awhile since I've been here... I had moved back to PA for a few years (Brrrrr!) but now I'm back in FL again! )

Do 240-Volt boat lift motors (Residential-Dwelling) require a GFCI breaker if the motors are Hard-Wired?
210.8(C) only mentions Outlets for Boat Hoists...no mention about hard-wired motors.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[david luchini]

Hello, it's been awhile since I've been here... I had moved back to PA for a few years (Brrrrr!) but now I'm back in FL again! )

Do 240-Volt boat lift motors (Residential-Dwelling) require a GFCI breaker if the motors are Hard-Wired?
210.8(C) only mentions Outlets for Boat Hoists...no mention about hard-wired motors.

Thanks,

Dave

A hard-wired motor is connected via an "outlet".

"Outlet" does not specifically mean "receptacle". See the definition of Outlet in Art. 100.

 

[mwm1752]

Davids on target -- Another note though there is a discussion on whether an reidential outdoor kitchen needs to follow kitchen circuitry rules - the same wording in a dwelling locations is used here too. some had argued the since it was ouside it was note under in the unit locations -- so with that logic is this pertaining to a boat hoist are inside a residence only :rotflmao:

 

[jap]

A hard-wired motor is connected via an "outlet".

"Outlet" does not specifically mean "receptacle". See the definition of Outlet in Art. 100.

So even if hardwired it needs to be GFI Protected as long as per what the 2011 code rule states," In dwelling unit locations".

My question would be, since most boat hoists are usually in the water at the boat dock on the bottom of the hill 200 yards below the residence,how far does that rule stretch ?
Is it saying that the rule wouldn't apply if at a marina where there are no dwelling units within site?

JAP>

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I believe the rule applies to a boat dock that is on the property of a dwelling. It may not be that but I am not sure what else it could mean

 

[davedottcom]

Thanks for the quick response David...I just wish you gave me the answer I was looking for! )

OK, so...IMO the NEC is obviously not including ALL 240V boat hoists to have "outlets" or they would have no reason to specifically mention the ones that do have outlets.

But, if what you are saying is correct (hard-wired motors do actually have outlets) then there must be another type that does not require GFCI or they would simply include all 240V hoists.
So, What type of 240V boat lifts do not require GFCI?

A hard-wired motor is connected via an "outlet".

"Outlet" does not specifically mean "receptacle". See the definition of Outlet in Art. 100.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think all hoists 240v or less require the gfci. I think you are reading into it too much. Any outlet for a hoist is required to have a gfci--this means all hoists since they all have outlets. Of course we are talking dwelling here

 

[david luchini]

Thanks for the quick response David...I just wish you gave me the answer I was looking for! )

OK, so...IMO the NEC is obviously not including ALL 240V boat hoists to have "outlets" or they would have no reason to specifically mention the ones that do have outlets.

But, if what you are saying is correct (hard-wired motors do actually have outlets) then there must be another type that does not require GFCI or they would simply include all 240V hoists.
So, What type of 240V boat lifts do not require GFCI?

By using the word "outlet," they did include ALL hoists not exceeding 240V in dwelling unit locations.

 

[davedottcom]

But that would make the mention of the word "Outlets" completely unnecessary. Would it not?

By using the word "outlet," they did include ALL hoists not exceeding 240V in dwelling unit locations.

 

[david luchini]

But that would make the mention of the word "Outlets" completely unnecessary. Would it not?

No. I think you are looking at 210.8(C) as requiring GFCI protection for Boat Hoists. It doesn't.

It requires GFCI protection for the Outlet that supplies the boat hoist. Removing the word Outlet would change the meaning of the section.

 

[davedottcom]

It would be like saying:

...all GFCI breakers that provide GFCI protection are blah blah...
See what I mean? If they meant to include ALL, then why would they make a redundant statement like that?

 

[luckylerado]

At Lake of the Ozarks, where residential docks are the norm, the area authorities have expanded the NEC on a local level to include Article 554 for residential docks. I have included links for your reading pleasure. We have had several electrocution deaths due to poor wiring and inadequate protection and grounding.

Please error on the side of safety and provide GFCI protection, weather at the 100mA personnel level on the service side per 555 or best practice, re-tap the motor to 120 and provide a GFCI recept. Especially on fresh water. The human body tends to conduct fault currents much better than fresh water so if a voltage gradient is present it prefers to travel through your body rather than the water that you are swimming in.

One little kid is electrocuted to death in your area and your will quickly realize that everything is better GFCI protected even if it causes the occasional nuisance tripping.

There is no good reason Not to apply 555 to residential docks. NFPA is foolish not to address the issue.


https://www.ameren.com/-/media/miss...eozarks/DockElectricalInstallRequirements.pdf

http://www.villageoffourseasons.com/19Inspection/Article 554, 2011 NEC Residential Docks.pdf

 

[cpinetree]

In the area of south west Florida we are, it is pretty simple.

Any wire that extends beyond the seawall must be GFI protected, with the exception of shore power receptacles.

The protection has to be prior to the seawall. So you can not feed a GFI receptacle on a piling with a standard breaker, the GFI protection must be prior to the seawall.

 

[davedottcom]

I'm trying to understand, but not quite getting it yet!

Could you tell me where the "Outlet" is in the circuit?

The circuit is run from the panel to the control panel. From the control panel, it is hard-wired (in PVC) from the control panel to a pvc junction box mounted on the side of the motor housing.
The junction box was factory installed to the side of the motor housing. Inside the PVC junction box are the motor leads that are factory wired to the motor inside the housing.

Where is the "Outlet"?

No. I think you are looking at 210.8(C) as requiring GFCI protection for Boat Hoists. It doesn't.

It requires GFCI protection for the Outlet that supplies the boat hoist. Removing the word Outlet would change the meaning of the section.

 

[Cavie]

Yes, boat lift motors are required to be GFI protected. 120 and 240. 210.8 (c)

 

[davedottcom]

Wow! Is this a local requirement for your area in addition to the NEC or are you saying this is National Code?

In the area of south west Florida we are, it is pretty simple.

Any wire that extends beyond the seawall must be GFI protected, with the exception of shore power receptacles.

The protection has to be prior to the seawall. So you can not feed a GFI receptacle on a piling with a standard breaker, the GFI protection must be prior to the seawall.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I'm trying to understand, but not quite getting it yet!

Could you tell me where the "Outlet" is in the circuit?

The circuit is run from the panel to the control panel. From the control panel, it is hard-wired (in PVC) from the control panel to a pvc junction box mounted on the side of the motor housing.
The junction box was factory installed to the side of the motor housing. Inside the PVC junction box are the motor leads that are factory wired to the motor inside the housing.

Where is the "Outlet"?

The outlet is the jb where you derive power. Look at the definition of outlet

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is
taken to supply utilization equipment.

 

[davedottcom]

Hmmm....but, but...

IMO the NEC is not saying ALL 240V boat hoists have "outlets" or they would have no reason to specifically mention the ones that do have outlets.
Can anyone explain why they specifically mention the word "outlets" if they ALL have outlets? I'm having a hard time understanding why they would even mention the word outlets in the first place!

The outlet is the jb where you derive power. Look at the definition of outlet

 

[david luchini]

IMO the NEC is not saying ALL 240V boat hoists have "outlets" or they would have no reason to specifically mention the ones that do have outlets.
Can anyone explain why they specifically mention the word "outlets" if they ALL have outlets? I'm having a hard time understanding why they would even mention the word outlets in the first place!

The OUTLET is what requires the GFCI protection, per 210.8(C). How could they tell you that without using the word OUTLET?

 

[luckylerado]

from 14' handbook

210.8 (C) Boat Hoists. GFCI protection shall be provided for outlets
not exceeding 240 volts that supply boat hoists installed in dwelling
unit locations.

The proximity of this type of equipment to water and the wet or
damp environment that is typical where boat hoists are used is
the reason for this GFCI requirement. Documented cases of electrocutions
associated with the use of boat hoists compiled by the
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission substantiated the need
for this requirement. The GFCI requirement applies only to dwelling
unit locations and to boat hoists supplied by 15- or 20-A
branch circuits rated 240 V or less. It is important to note that it
applies to all outlets, not just to receptacle outlets. Therefore, both
cord-and-plug-connected and hard-wired boat hoists are required
to be GFCI protected.