Does 110.26(A)(1) apply to a motor disconnect w/locable controller upstream?

[jwelectric]

Notice there is no mention of what the standards of the training are.

The standards required at one workplace may be different than another. What would be the point of spending a lot of time training on things involving meduim voltage if you are never going to work on it? It also does little good training how to work something hot if you are not allowed to work things hot. Working things hot is not covered by the NEC anyway. Last I knew this was an NEC forum.



Who issues these cards? Likely the plant or a third party that the plant recognizes. Not very likely to be the AHJ that does general electrical inspections and licensing. The card may not be valid at anyplace you choose but rather those that recognize it.

From 70E
110.6(D) Employee Training
(1) Qualified Person. A qualified person shall be trained and knowledgeable of the construction and operation of equipment or a specific work method and be trained to recognize the electrical hazards that might be present with respect to that equipment or work method.
(b) Such persons permitted to work within the Limited Approach Boundary of exposed of energized electrical conductors and circuit parts operating at 50 volts or more shall, at a minimum, be additional trained in the following:
(4) The decision-making process necessary to determine the degree and extent of the hazard and the personal protective equipment and job planning process necessary to perform the task safely.

(e) Employees shall be trained to select an appropriate voltage detector and shall demonstrate how to use a device to verify the absence of voltage, including interrupting indications provided by the device. The training shall include information that enables the employee to understand all limitations of each specific voltage detector that may be used.

Table 130.7(C)(9) Pnaelboards and Other Equipment Rated 240 volts and Below
Work on energized electrical conductors and circuit parts, including voltage testing
Hazard/Risk Category 1, Rubber Insulating Gloves Yes, Insulated and insulating tools yes

Anyone who does not follow these rules is an unqualified person that is not only putting their self in harm?s way but could be causing pain for others.
This part of the training is all encompassing for all aspects of the electrical industry.


My card was issued by Julin Burns and states that I have completed a seminar for Electrical Safety In The Workplace 2009 NFPA 70E Arc-Flash Awareness

Mr. Burns is on the board for NFPA 70E

I would hope that all the electricans out there would know and understand just what is meant by the catagory rating of their test equipment.

How many uses test equipment with a cat rating of less than level III or no rating at all?

How many use an anolog meter designed for electronics?

How many out there with no safety training at all checking voltages in residential settings?

Am I preaching safety to hard? If you answered this question yes then what is left to say.............

the working space around a AC disconnect would be the least of their problems.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
My card was issued by Julin Burns and states that I have completed a seminar for Electrical Safety In The Workplace 2009 NFPA 70E Arc-Flash Awareness

Mr. Burns is on the board for NFPA 70E ...

What board is that? I am not aware of a 70E board.

 

[jwelectric]

What board is that? I am not aware of a 70E board.

bad choice of words

 

[don_resqcapt19]

bad choice of words

You seem to expect everything I say to be perfect, so just returning the favor.

 

[jwelectric]

Thank you for keeping me straight.

I sit on so many committees, panels, and boards that I sometimes get confused. No on second thought I am just confused.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

.. No on second thought I am just confused.

Just like most of the rest of us here

 

[kwired]

From 70E
110.6(D) Employee Training
(1) Qualified Person. A qualified person shall be trained and knowledgeable of the construction and operation of equipment or a specific work method and be trained to recognize the electrical hazards that might be present with respect to that equipment or work method.
(b) Such persons permitted to work within the Limited Approach Boundary of exposed of energized electrical conductors and circuit parts operating at 50 volts or more shall, at a minimum, be additional trained in the following:
(4) The decision-making process necessary to determine the degree and extent of the hazard and the personal protective equipment and job planning process necessary to perform the task safely.

(e) Employees shall be trained to select an appropriate voltage detector and shall demonstrate how to use a device to verify the absence of voltage, including interrupting indications provided by the device. The training shall include information that enables the employee to understand all limitations of each specific voltage detector that may be used.

Table 130.7(C)(9) Pnaelboards and Other Equipment Rated 240 volts and Below
Work on energized electrical conductors and circuit parts, including voltage testing
Hazard/Risk Category 1, Rubber Insulating Gloves Yes, Insulated and insulating tools yes

Anyone who does not follow these rules is an unqualified person that is not only putting their self in harm?s way but could be causing pain for others.
This part of the training is all encompassing for all aspects of the electrical industry.


My card was issued by Julin Burns and states that I have completed a seminar for Electrical Safety In The Workplace 2009 NFPA 70E Arc-Flash Awareness

Mr. Burns is on the board for NFPA 70E

I would hope that all the electricans out there would know and understand just what is meant by the catagory rating of their test equipment.

How many uses test equipment with a cat rating of less than level III or no rating at all?

How many use an anolog meter designed for electronics?

How many out there with no safety training at all checking voltages in residential settings?

Am I preaching safety to hard? If you answered this question yes then what is left to say.............

the working space around a AC disconnect would be the least of their problems.

I am not arguing that one needs to be qualified - my point is that training needed to be qualified may vary from one workplace to the next. I don't think you can just go to any class, recieve a certificate or card and now you are a qualified person to do any electrical work you choose to do.

When I said "Notice there is no mention of what the standards of the training are." I was not refering to what standards in 70E are what I meant is what type of equipment, voltage, and things of that nature. It does very little good to spend any time training for all possible electrical related hazards if they do not exist. An example is if you spend time during training on work practices required for medium voltages and you work in a place where there is no meduim voltages used. Same is true if you only train for low voltage work and you find yourself doing medium voltage work.

Employers must train their employees for hazards that exist on the job - this goes beyond 70E. 70E is just the foundation for electrical hazards.

As far as being trained by someone on 70E committe or whatever that may just be your luck. I don't think the committe is large enough to train all the electrical workers in the country, and your card is probably only valid with an employer if they choose to recognize the issuing party. Many large companies likely have in house training or contract somebody to do in house training.

 

[jwelectric]

I am not arguing that one needs to be qualified - my point is that training needed to be qualified may vary from one workplace to the next. I don't think you can just go to any class, recieve a certificate or card and now you are a qualified person to do any electrical work you choose to do.

I agree with this but one can receive a general safety class that would apply to all electrical installations.

When I said "Notice there is no mention of what the standards of the training are." I was not refering to what standards in 70E are what I meant is what type of equipment, voltage, and things of that nature. It does very little good to spend any time training for all possible electrical related hazards if they do not exist. An example is if you spend time during training on work practices required for medium voltages and you work in a place where there is no meduim voltages used. Same is true if you only train for low voltage work and you find yourself doing medium voltage work.

There are three main hazards from working on electrical installations, electrocution, arc flash, and arc blast. Ladder and scaffold hazards are different type hazards as well a pinch points and are outside the scope of 70E.

Employers must train their employees for hazards that exist on the job - this goes beyond 70E. 70E is just the foundation for electrical hazards.

Yes all hazards but as you point out OSHA 1910 and 1926 as well as 70E addresses the electrical hazards.

As far as being trained by someone on 70E committe or whatever that may just be your luck. I don't think the committe is large enough to train all the electrical workers in the country, and your card is probably only valid with an employer if they choose to recognize the issuing party. Many large companies likely have in house training or contract somebody to do in house training.

Most of the in house training given in my area are the training programs sold by NFPA or are an outside source which uses one of these programs. There are, to the best of my knowledge, no safety training program given anywhere that does not quote from NFPA 70E, OSHA 1910, and 1926. It was OSHA who requested that a panel be formed by NFPA to set the standards for electrical safety thus we now have 70E which is incorporated into the rules of OSHA.
Yes I am very blessed to know Mr. Burns and to share in his knowledge of NFPA 70E as well as NFPA 70.
Look at who is the Chair Person for Code Making Panel 8 of the 2011 cycle. I sit with him on the NCIAEI Education Committee.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It is my understanding that the only one that can say you are qualified is your employeer. How he chooses to evaluate your qualifications is up to him. In many cases they will relay on the type of 3rd party training that Mike is talking about. Other times they may just say you are qualified and leave it at that.

 

[kwired]

It is my understanding that the only one that can say you are qualified is your employeer. How he chooses to evaluate your qualifications is up to him. In many cases they will relay on the type of 3rd party training that Mike is talking about. Other times they may just say you are qualified and leave it at that.

That sums up what I wanted to say pretty well.

Thanks. There is no law saying what details the training must cover. Same really goes for most non electrical hazards. Employers have to train their employees to whatever standard they choose. OSHA has some recommended publications to help with this. If a specific hazard does not exist at your place of employment, or in your particular area of the workplace why would you need to train for it? An office worker should not need to take fall arrest equipment training if they are never going to work on elevated areas. An electrical worker that is not allowed to work anything hot will need to learn how to properly protect himself when checking to make sure it is dead as well as learning how to ensure that it remains dead but beyond that there is no electrical hazard.

 

[jwelectric]

Yes electrical safety is the law. If it wasn?t a law then an OSHA inspector could not write citations and levy fines for OSHA violations.

The United States Congress passed the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 which led to the formation of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). In 1976 at the request of OSHA NFPA started with 70E which was first published in 1979.
Yes this is a federal law that is administered by most states, and here in North Carolina it is administered by the NC Department of Labor.

What I am addressing is electrical safety not the safety rules outlined for office help. I am only addressing electrical safety and how it would apply to doing voltage testing at an AC disconnect.

In Article 100 of the NEC the definition of a qualified person is given;

Qualified Person.

One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved.

FPN: Refer to NFPA 70E?-2004, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, for electrical safety trainingrequirements.

Notice that the informational note makes reference to NFPA 70E. This quote is from the 2008 cycle.

In order for someone to open a 240 volt single phase panel to do voltage readings that person would need to have the safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved in the procedure. He would need to know the approach boundaries and what PPE would be required to do such testing. Taking voltage readings in a single phase 240 volt residential panel requires a certain measure of PPE that must be worn in order to protect you from shock and arc flash.

Now your employer can say that you are qualified to do this task but should something go wrong and you are seriously hurt or killed he is required by law to produce the documentation of where and how you received your safety training. If he can?t produce this documentation then he is in the world of trouble. An OSHA inspector will show up with or without his permission to confirm that you were qualified to do the work and to investigate the accident. This is law not something he can choose to ignore or push aside.

Here is a site that is full of information concerning OSHA and NFPA 70E and how it all got started and how it fits into law.
http://www.coverallsale.com/osha-nec-nfpa.htm

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
Now your employer can say that you are qualified to do this task but should something go wrong and you are seriously hurt or killed he is required by law to produce the documentation of where and how you received your safety training. If he can?t produce this documentation then he is in the world of trouble. An OSHA inspector will show up with or without his permission to confirm that you were qualified to do the work and to investigate the accident. This is law not something he can choose to ignore or push aside. ...

That is no different from any other safety rules that are enforced by OSHA. Your employer needs documented training for almost everything...and even if you as the employer have provided the training and your employee does not follow that training you are still responsible. OSHA's position is that all safety issues result from lack of training and that the employer is at fault even where the employee has failed to comply with the safety rules.

 

[kwired]

That is no different from any other safety rules that are enforced by OSHA. Your employer needs documented training for almost everything...and even if you as the employer have provided the training and your employee does not follow that training you are still responsible. OSHA's position is that all safety issues result from lack of training and that the employer is at fault even where the employee has failed to comply with the safety rules.

Amen.

And so many people wonder why manufacturing is always being moved to other countries.

Safety is important but common sense has to be there also.

 

[pfalcon]

Yes electrical safety is the law. If it wasn?t a law then an OSHA inspector could not write citations and levy fines for OSHA violations.

Sort of law.
In actuality, the Act itself is law. The rules body publications are not law but rather accepted interpretations of the Act. Very few citations or fines are issued for actual violation of the law; overwhelmingly the citations and fines are issued for violation of the interpretations. This is not strictly a legitimate practice but is done through many, many regulatory bodies in the US.
Reality: Very little law relates to electrical safety; A great deal of interpretation is available.
Also Reality: Legal code says you cannot be found guilty as a legal violation of an interpretation.
Also Reality: The judge will find you guilty anyway all the way to the US Supreme Court.

 

[Jammin]

local disconnects

local disconnects

I would like to add a reference from 240.24 A- Location in or on Premises, or more specifically exception 4
"recognizes the need for overcurrent protection in locations that are not readily accessible, such as above suspended ceilings. It permits overcurrent devices to be located so that they are not readily accessible, as long as they are next to the applicance, motor other equipment they supply and can be reached by using a ladder".

NEC cannot possibly cover every installation, but gives us a guide to the application or intent. My interpretation of this would be a local non-fused disconnect will also be allowed to be accessible, NOT readily accessible and be accessed by portable means.

Also section 430.107 says "at least one of the disconnecting means shall be readily accessible".

So if you have an MCC in your electrical room, your MCC bucket disconnect is "readily accessible", so therefore your local disconnect can be "accessible".

J