Electrical Safety Question needing Legal & NEC Requirements

[Rjryan]

I worked for a school district that said they did not have to follow NFPA 70E, because they were not covered by OSHA.
The district, as a result did not put Arc-Fault Hazard Warnings on new or old equipment. The NEC uses 70E to define who
is a qualified person and for other safety issues. My question is how legally can this district separate NEC requirements from 70E?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The NEC does not use 70E for anything as the NFPA rules prohibit one NFPA standard from providing a mandatory reference to a requirement in another NFPA standard. There are informational notes to other NFPA standards by no enforceable references to the other standards.

4.2 References to Other NFPA Standards. Except as permitted in 4.2.3 for NFPA 70E, references to other standards shall not be contained in requirements. References to standards shall be permitted in definitions and informational notes except as specified in 4.2.1.

So the NEC cannot reference 70E in a requirement, but 70E is permitted to reference other NFPA standards in the text of the standard.

 

[David Castor]

I agree that NFPA 70E is not a legal requirement in the US. However, the district may want to consider what their defense would be if someone was injured and it was learned that they had knowingly ignored a consensus safety standard that has been in existence for over 20 years.

 

[Rjryan]

The NEC does not use 70E for anything as the NFPA rules prohibit one NFPA standard from providing a mandatory reference to a requirement in another NFPA standard. There are informational notes to other NFPA standards by no enforceable references to the other standards.

So the NEC cannot reference 70E in a requirement, but 70E is permitted to reference other NFPA standards in the text of the standard.

Thank you: short answer, if I am understanding you right, 70E can only be only used as an unenforceable reference in the NEC.

 

[jim dungar]

Thank you: short answer, if I am understanding you right, 70E can only be only used as an unenforceable reference in the NEC.

The NEC is an installation code. NFPA70E is an operation code.
Maintenance and similar work, including initial physical installation, are subject to agencies, like OSHA and MSHA, which usually require some type of qualifications for personnel.

 

[Fred B]

In NY, school districts are governed by the State Ed., and are exempted from most code requirements or enforcement, or so they say. Seen a lot of NEC violations that are just ignored deemed not applicable, can't see how they get away with some of the safety issues seen.

Splices without an enclosure, live uncapped wire under a sink cabinet with gas and water, replacement receptacles without using TR (406.12(4)), among others.

 

[Rjryan]

I agree that NFPA 70E is not a legal requirement in the US. However, the district may want to consider what their defense would be if someone was injured and it was learned that they had knowingly ignored a consensus safety standard that has been in existence for over 20 years.

The district I am referring to is one of the largest in Texas and you would recognize the name immediately.
The bucket trucks were the only ones with any kind of PPE, because they worked energized circuits most of the time.
Electricians worked 277VAC energized without insulated gloves or any other PPE.
No fall protection.
IT was the wild, Wild West. Never understood their lack of safety, but the Jobs got done and for the most part there were no substantial
injuries, despite substantial risks.

 

[Buck Parrish]

The district I am referring to is one of the largest in Texas and you would recognize the name immediately.
The bucket trucks were the only ones with any kind of PPE, because they worked energized circuits most of the time.
Electricians worked 277VAC energized without insulated gloves or any other PPE.
No fall protection.
IT was the wild, Wild West. Never understood their lack of safety, but the Jobs got done and for the most part there were no substantial
injuries, despite substantial risks.

Did you see this ?

 

[TrishTreasure]

The district I am referring to is one of the largest in Texas and you would recognize the name immediately.
The bucket trucks were the only ones with any kind of PPE, because they worked energized circuits most of the time.
Electricians worked 277VAC energized without insulated gloves or any other PPE.
No fall protection.
IT was the wild, Wild West. Never understood their lack of safety, but the Jobs got done and for the most part there were no substantial
injuries, despite substantial risks.

I feel your frustration and amazement. OSHA & MSHA cover all workers...except anyone who works for a tax-sustained entity. Yep...Schools, government, utilitiy....if Tax payers pay the tab, OSHA & MSHA can not cite them, since it would be Tax payers paying the bill..which they can't allow for. SO...the biggest insult to injury is that there really is no oversight and we may as well never have had OSHA, MSHA or anything Safety as far as these poor folks are concerned. Some cities, like Austin, have taken it upon themselves to adopt stringent safety measures, but anyother entity....Wild, Wild West is right. It's heart breaking to know that these folks are not getting the training or precautions needed to protect them. But, it's that much more infuriating that the rules don't apply to everyone. Kinda like sayin': Private business workers' lives are more important than public servants'. Can you tell this is a huge pet peeve?

 

[hillbilly1]

A couple of years ago, OSHA cited the US post office, may have not issued fines, but wrote them up for exposed wiring and open j boxes. Don’t remember which location it was. I will see if I can find the story again.

 

[hillbilly1]

https://www.osha.gov/news/newsreleases/region4/01252023

 

[mtnelect]

A couple of years ago, OSHA cited the US post office, may have not issued fines, but wrote them up for exposed wiring and open j boxes. Don’t remember which location it was. I will see if I can find the story again.

The U.S. Post Office is not part of the government, it's a private entity.

The USPS is an independent agency, and therefore its workers aren’t federal employees. While the local post office employs over 500,000 postal workers in the United States, they are not necessarily “federal” employees. They do, however, receive the same benefits as federal workers and must follow federal rules.

 

[Hv&Lv]

The U.S. Post Office is not part of the government, it's a private entity.

The USPS is an independent agency, and therefore its workers aren’t federal employees. While the local post office employs over 500,000 postal workers in the United States, they are not necessarily “federal” employees. They do, however, receive the same benefits as federal workers and must follow federal rules.

Not entirely true. USPS is ruled under title 39 of the federal laws. Private entities arent.
The president appoints the 9 governors of the post office, and these 9 decide who will be the postmaster general and deputy postmaster general To make a total of 11 members.

The USPS is an independent agency of the executive branch of the federal government.
more of a quasi federal institution.

 

[Rjryan]

I feel your frustration and amazement. OSHA & MSHA cover all workers...except anyone who works for a tax-sustained entity. Yep...Schools, government, utilitiy....if Tax payers pay the tab, OSHA & MSHA can not cite them, since it would be Tax payers paying the bill..which they can't allow for. SO...the biggest insult to injury is that there really is no oversight and we may as well never have had OSHA, MSHA or anything Safety as far as these poor folks are concerned. Some cities, like Austin, have taken it upon themselves to adopt stringent safety measures, but anyother entity....Wild, Wild West is right. It's heart breaking to know that these folks are not getting the training or precautions needed to protect them. But, it's that much more infuriating that the rules don't apply to everyone. Kinda like sayin': Private business workers' lives are more important than public servants'. Can you tell this is a huge pet peeve?

Thank you for this detailed explanation. I know the frustration, because before I went to the school district, worked for a large corporation that was considered one of the best with regard to safety. From day one they had me doing things that would got me fired for, without the blink of an eye at my previous job. Needed the job so I stuck it out, knowing full well how dangerous the job got. Endured the criticism for trying to make the job as safe as possible by my fellow employees. Blessed to make it out safely.

 

[jaggedben]

I feel your frustration and amazement. OSHA & MSHA cover all workers...except anyone who works for a tax-sustained entity. Yep...Schools, government, utilitiy....if Tax payers pay the tab, OSHA & MSHA can not cite them, since it would be Tax payers paying the bill..which they can't allow for. ...

This isn't how OSHA law works and is misleading. Almost all employees are covered by some form of occupational safety rules. It's just a matter of figuring out which ones and which agency enforces them.

 

[TrishTreasure]

Federal agencies must have a safety and health program that meet the same standards as private employers. Although OSHA does not fine federal agencies, it does monitor these agencies and conducts federal workplace inspections in response to workers' complaints. Having a Program is not having oversight.

The point is that there are no teeth and not enough OSHA inspectors to handle Private entities, let alone tax payer funded. We all know what happens when the expectation is to self govern, especially when it comes to safety. Not misleading anyone; just real life. Yet, we all know employers (big and small) who have no safety or have great system on paper; just not implemented...and they DO fall under OSHA.

The ONLY true overseer with serious teeth for safety is JCAHO (Joint Commission)...but that's more about Patient Safety than worker safety. EPA is a shark, but again, that is about environmental safety for the public.

 

[David Castor]

OSHA generally won't get involved until after there's an incident, at least in my experience related to electrical safety. They can be invited in for a voluntary compliance audit and they will give you recommendations but no fines. But it doesn't sound like the school district would be interested.

The main point is that NFPA 70E is not a legal requirement - it's a consensus standard.

 

[Rjryan]

OSHA generally won't get involved until after there's an incident, at least in my experience related to electrical safety. They can be invited in for a voluntary compliance audit and they will give you recommendations but no fines. But it doesn't sound like the school district would be interested.

The main point is that NFPA 70E is not a legal requirement - it's a consensus standard.

Am I getting this right, 70E is not an enforceable, only a guideline for safe work practices?

 

[Fred B]

Statement from 2023 NFPA 70E enhanced content:

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) looks to the prescriptive-based requirements of NFPA 70E to fulfill the performance-based requirements included in its standards, especially since NFPA 70E is the American National Standard on the subject and sets the bar for safe work practices. This symbiotic relationship between NFPA 70E and OSHA electrical safety standards helps to increase safety in the workplace.

Typically, NFPA 70E is not incorporated by reference into legislation. It is frequently voluntarily used by employers to help fulfill their obligations to OSHA. Compliance with federal regulations is often not verified until an injury occurs. By default, both the employer and employee play the role of the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) when it comes to proactively implementing and enforcing the requirements of NFPA 70E.

 

[David Castor]

Am I getting this right, 70E is not an enforceable, only a guideline for safe work practices?

Basically correct. OSHA will tell you that if you are following NFPA 70E you should be in compliance with relevant OSHA rules, but they don't mandate its use. If you say you don't follow 70E, they will ask to see your safety program. Insurance companies might require it. I've been at facilities that go beyond NFPA 70E requirements as a company policy.