EMF problem

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karl riley

Senior Member
I am trying something new: to share an EMF job with the users here. I am about to fly coast-to-coast to address a wiring problem because the local eloectrician can't figure it out.

Problem: a high AC magnetic field that seems to be coming from a conduit in the ceiling of a software company. The field spikes with the cycling of a copier. I assume it is interfering with some of their electronics.

I will post the progress of the investigation, including the trouble-shooting procedure. I will start tomorrow (Tues) afternoon and work Wednesday. Will try to post in the evenings (West coast time).

If this kind of case history is useful I will put together a book of case histories over 14 years of such investigations, so I am looking for feedback as this case is posted.

Karl
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: EMF problem

I would bet that there is some type of illegal grounded conductor connection that is causing this problem. Maybe the conduit in question is a subpanel feeder for the panel that serves the copy machine and the grounded conductor is bonded at the subpanel, or there is a circuit with the hot from one panel and the grounded conductor from a second panel.
Don
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: EMF problem

Don, that's exactly what I am expecting (as well as the possibility of two neutrals from two circuits connected in a junction box). The fun part is, you never know until you get there. I've had some really weird ones that I expected to be a piece of cake.

But basically, this is to take readers through the process I use and see if it is of any use to them.

Karl
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: EMF problem

OK. I have finished the job, and Don, I only wished it had been a big fat subpanel with grounded neutral bus. Not so easy this time!

But first I need to ask a dumb question and get a quick reply if possible, as they want a report ASAP, and I am on the road far from my Code books. The dumb question (have not had to deal with this before) is: am I right in remembering that one may not use Romex (NM) cable in a steel one-story office building? If so, are there any exceptions?

I have to be brief because I am on a timed computer in an Idaho library, but how about this: Though the building was originally wired in conduit, I found a box in the ceiling with Romex coming out of it; one circuit had zero on the hot, 4.19A on the neutral, and 4.19A on the EGC. Anyone want to try an explanation? Oh, and the currents are going in opposite directions, 180 degrees out of phase. I think I have the answer but it took awhile to get over the mental shock.
Karl
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: EMF problem

Karl,
There was not a restriction on the use of NM in steel frame building in the NEC that I know of. Many local codes required conduit for all commerical occupancies.
Was the neutral open on the line side of where you measured the current and was there a neutral to ground connection beyond this point?
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Re: EMF problem

Karl

Your expertise is above mine. Friday I had the same reading and it was the power co's problem. Lost neutral.

All the neutral current was returning on the water supply. Shut the washing machine down. Went fron 4.1amps to 2.2amps. Shut the AC Down it went from 2.2amps to .01amps.

All I am saying is KISS, keep it simple stupid.
Sometimes we "look" too hard.

Mike P.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: EMF problem

Karl, it would seem there is a "two fold problem" here. There seems to be an open or misdirected (what?) neutral or grounded conductor, and a voltage / current fault to a poor bonding or grounding conductor, which appears to be the conduit.

Yea, I know it's worded wierd. :)

Roger
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: EMF problem

Don, thanks for the reply. I will have to assume, until I can get back to my books, that the NM that is in this steel building is Code OK. I did not see any support attachment within 12" of the junction boxes as I believe is required for NM. If anyone else knows about the use of NM in steel commercial buildings, please add your comments.

About the circuit with no hot current and 4.19A on both neutral and ground (going in opposite directions), that neutral is connected on the line side to other neutrals so it is not open. Since my time was up and the load end of this circuit was not visible I could not verify it's condition, but here is what I am assuming:

The neutral must be connected to the EGC somewhere on the load end (this serves a receptacle). The current is coming from one or more of the neutrals it is connected to on the line side. 4.19A of this available current is going down this neutral to the connection to the EGC, then doubling back to the junction box where it is bonded with a ground screw. From here it makes it's way by building steel and some internal copper water pipes back to the transformer ground which is clamped to the water pipe. Building steel and copper pipes compete well with neutral conductors in terms of impedance. (give those pipes an amp and they'll take 4!)

I would appreciate any comments on this possible scenario.
Karl
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Re: EMF problem

The romex has a bare copper equipment ground. perhaps this bare conductor is touching a neutral in a switch or receptacle box. If it was a steel building, orginally wired in conduit, then romex was used, it may of been an short cut wiring job, romex is much easier to install than conduit, by unqualified persons (perhaps) and this could lead to the unintentional neutral to ground connection.
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: EMF problem

Tom, yes, that is what I am assuming. There was one other romex with a similar situation. No current on the hot, 2 - 9A on the neutral. In this case I was able to be there after hours and disconnect the neutral and test continuity to ground, and it did have continuity. It went to a receptacle.

Here's a hint: the junction boxes were dated that had the Romex: 12/24/97. Christmas eve day! There could be a few reasons for sloppy work from an electrician who was called on to work on Christmas eve!

I'll get back to describing the trouble-shooting process I used to get to that point in the next day or two.

And Roger, I didn't quite follow your posts, but you were trying to be very brief, I know.

Karl
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Re: EMF problem

Karl if you can write up a description of what you found and did to correct, Mike Holt may want to send it out as a newsletter....sounds like an
expensive fix for a simple problem.
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: EMF problem

Tom, it is true that it is expensive to fly someone coast-to-coast to find, ultimately, two grounded neutrals. This was considered necessary because the local electrical contractor who took care of the building's wiring did not have a clue as to how to find the cause of the high magnetic field. Had he agreed to try, it might have cost them even more. Their representative who came out to meet with me before I had gotten far into it said that the wiring needed to be "cleaned up" and that his company could come in an "clean up" the wiring. Can you imagine what that would cost?

Accurate pinpointing of the error/s saves time and money in the end, though it would be better if there were EMF trouble shooters in every city. So, with that said, I will outline my procedure as promised:

Client's complaint: Unable to function in one small office due to headaches, etc. Bought a gaussmeter and found high fields in that office, so moved into an adjacent office that was OK. Business owner agreed to hire me to find source.

Procedure:

1) Took magnetic field measurements in a grid of about 4' X 4' in the row of offices and hall including the high field office. Also the adjacent bathrooms. Looking at the pattern, the office in question was highest, with a hot area on the wall to a receptacle, and very even readings to halfway into the bathrooms, where it dropped off. The even readings indicates a loop, bounded by the halls and halfway through the bathrooms. Field strength quadruples briefly periodically and is due to the heater of a copy machine cycling. Measurements have to ignore these peaks.

2) Used the "magstick" to follow the field sources. The magstick consists of a sensor coil on the end of a PVC stick going to a small amplifier by the handle. Both Radio Shack parts. 60 Hz and harmonics are audible (if unpleasant). This showed that the linear sources were the conduit in the hall ceiling, which took a 90 degree bend with the hall, some linear source in the bathroom ceiling, the water pipes running to the bathrooms, and a source in the wall of the "hot" office coming down from the conduit in the hall to a receptacle and then continuing around the office wall at waist height.

3) Opened the panel for receptacles, etc. (The lights were on higher voltage and not involved).
Observe: groups of 3-phase conductors bunched together going out a few conduits. 12 conductors with 4 neutrals in one conduit. I identified the conduit group of interest by the tell-tale spiking from the copy machine. Used a Fluke clamp-on (#36) with max, min and average to record resultant current in the hots of this group. Did the same around the neutrals. Noted that there was 3 - 4 amps missing from the neutrals. Clamping around the entire group, hots + neutrals, you see this as 3 - 4A net current.

This indicates that either the missing neutral is going to grounding paths, or to neutrals from another circuit. No other circuit was found with the same net current, so unlikely it is going to other neutrals. However, there were many indications that neutral had gotten to grounding paths, such as the 2 - 3A on the water pipes servicing the bathrooms. So we are looking for neutral-to-ground out in the circuits.

Note: there were other longer term fluctuations of the net current whose cause we discovered later.

4) If there were subpanels in this building they would be the next stop, since your neutral/ground is often found there. But no subpanels here. So next step is to start poking through the raised panels in the hall ceiling to trace the net current and look for junction boxes to open and measure. This is basically methodical work since in a loop field the net current cause could be at any point and show in both directions.

Junction boxes with the most circuits connected are the most suspicious. I found one in the hall next to the "hot" office with romex coming out, though the main circuits were in conduit. My process is to clamp the ammeter around all connections to the box. The conduits showed the net current of 3 - 4A I saw at the panel. Clamping the ammeter around the romex showed an average net current of 2.23A, with spikes of 9.01A. So we measure the individual conductors from this romex in the box. The hot had zero amps, and the neutral was carrying the total amount measured as net current.

To know if this neutral went to ground we had to wait until after hours and detach it and test continuity to ground. It did show continuity, so we had found one source. Since power was off to the circuit I could also put a tracing signal onto the neutral to see where it went. (The battery powered tracer puts a beeping signal on the conductor and the detecting receiver picks it up. I followed the signal to the receptacle in the "hot" office, and also around the wall where the magnetic field path had been detected earlier.

With this circuit temporarily disconnected there was less net current from the conduit but still a few amps. We discovered that it was bathroom use which was causing the current to jump up at times. The two bathroom lights and fans were on this feed and supplied more neutral when on; hence more net current, more neutral-to-ground.

I continued around the bend in the hall and found another box with romex with strange readings. The hot had zero amps, the neutral had 4.05A, and the EGC 1.92A.

I traced this romex visually through the wall to a box in the ceiling of the kitchen. I was mystified by finding no net current on a romex that I thought would have it. But when I measured the conductors individually I found zero on the hot, 4.18A on the neutral and 4.18A on the EGC. The EGC was connected to the other EGCs and then screwed to the box and the box was attached to building steel, as this was a steel building. The 4.18A on the EGC split and 2.4A went to the grounding screw on the box, and 1.92A went on the EGC of the romex from the hall box. There were fluctuations due to use of the bathrooms.

This indicated a neutral-ground connection between that neutral and EGC somewhere in the wall (I could see it disappear into the wall but it did not appear at the receptacle nearby). What was evidently happening was that this N/G connection was draining off neutral from the loads on the main feed in the hall and allowing them a cheap passage back to the transformer by way of the building steel and the copper water pipes supplying the bathrooms and the kitchen sink. By draining neutral from the feed neutrals you also cause a net current in the conduits. Net currents create strong magnetic fields which weaken slowly.

This completed the loop and explained the magnetic fields in the offices.

5) The job was completed mid-day so I could not trace the second romex any further, so that job will be up to the electrician they hire to deal with the two romex circuits with N/G connections. The junction boxes with romex were added after the building was constructed with conduit, and the kitchen box was marked "12/24/97". So one can imagine the possible state of an electrician who had been told to add these circuits on Christmas Eve.

6) Step 6 is to write the report in such a way that the CEO can understand the electrical logic, and the electrician who is called in can understand what he is looking for.

Any comments, or suggestions of how you might have been able to find these errors more quickly will be appreciated. Also, do you think that a book of war stories of this type would be useful to electricians?

Karl
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: EMF problem

Karl,

How did the customer arrive at the conclusion they had an electrical problem in the first place?

I would never have connected a headache with an electrical problem.

How did they find you and know that they needed to fly someone across the county for this?

What kind of customer rates this problem high enough to spend the money?

Hard enough to get some to replace what they can see is broken, never mind fix invisible problems.

And finally what type of amp clamp do you use?

Bob
 

ed downey

Senior Member
Location
Missouri
Re: EMF problem

Karl,

I Think A Book About These Would Be Great It Is Good To Hear Your Process On Different Projects.
I Purchased Your Book "Tracing EMFs In Building Wiring And Grounding" And It Has Been Very Useful Along With The Gaussmeter On Two Separate Occasions Where We Completed Construction On A New Project And During Our 11 Month Warranty Walk The Building Owners Complained About Flickering Computer Monitors.
This Is Very Interesting Reading For Me Personaly.
Thanks,
Ed
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: EMF problem

I appreciate the replies and comments.
Bob, this engineer knew about the magnetic field health research so he decided to see if a field was involved. I believe he has become sonmwhat electrosensitive. I've seen others who were extremely so. So he purchased an inexpensive gaussmeter to check it out, and he was right.

How he found me: I've done a lot of work on the west coast, mainly Cal. The utilities and various agencies know me. He got a copy of my book, showed it to the building electrician, and since the electrician did not feel up to tracing the source, he got in touch with me.

I think he is a valued employee. Usually I am called in to a commercial office because the computer monitors are flickering and giving headaches from visual stress. Sometimes they have vascated the area.

I use different sized clamp-ons. The Fluke 36 for general use and when fluctuating. A small mini Yokogawa model for getting into tight panels and boxes (with a hold button) - measures down to 0.01 amp. Then I have a large thin jawed one (Tenma) that plugs into a multimeter, and finally an AEMC flexible one that has 2' flexible ring for service conduits or large water pipes, etc. I have two, and they work together to make a 4' probe for large busways.

Karl
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: EMF problem

Thanks for the answers Karl, in the case of flickering monitors I would expect them to call in an electrician, it surprised me that just a headache got their attention.

I have a Fluke 36, Fluke T5-1000 and another Fluke AC/DC 400 amp clamp probe that plugs into my Fluke 87.

None of these seems useful at low (less than 5 amps) levels.

I am interested in getting a clamp meter that is highly accurate at low current levels.

Would the Yokogawa model you have do what I want?

Thank you, Bob

[ August 16, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 

pierre

Senior Member
Re: EMF problem

Karl

how long did this process take you? What kind of safety factor is involved, especially when you open the panel covers? Do you do this work alone?
Thanks
I may be interested in using your services in Westchester County, NY.

Pierre
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: EMF problem

Bob, My Fluke is a model 33, not 36 as I had said. It is accurate at amps and tenths of amps. The yokogawa reads down to hundredths. It is not True RMS, so I can't always mix clamp-ons when comparing readings. The big AEMC probe is also super sensitive. Just get the more sensitive model. The Yokogawa has a 20 amp and a 200 amp setting. Both are accurate to 0.1A.

Pierre, I used to open the panel covers myself, particularly in residential jobs, Now when I do commercial I ask for a local electrician to accompany me and remove the covers. So far I've been lucky - no explosions.
Otherwise I can either work alone or with an electrician to help with the ladder, etc. Since I work in different States I require a local electrician to make any changes. All I do is measure.

Karl
 
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