Entirely Independent

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roger

roger

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As a follow up to the 700.9(B) thread I did send a question to the Panel Members which consisted of Vince Saporita, (CMP 11) David Mercier, (CMP 7 Alt) John Minick, (Retired CMP member) Mark Ode, (TCC Alt, CMP 3 Alt, and CMP 4) Jim Carpenter (TCC Chair, although he gave his seat on the panel to Keith Lofland) Keith Lofland, (director of education, codes and standards for IAEI International) Mark Earley, (see pages 9 and 20 of the NEC and the cover of the NECH) Richard Loyd, (CMP 8) and Alan Manche (CMP 10).

Here is the question I sent in.
Considering the term "entirely independent" as used in 517.30(C)(1), 517.41(D), and 700.9(B), does permanent barriers installed in a surface metallic raceway, underfloor metallic raceway, or any other equipment meet the requirement of being "entirely independent" when other wiring systems are installed in the other compartments?
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As Dennis stated here the question went to Vince Saporita, who said at first he was going to answer no but, after discussing it with some other panel members, (he specifically stated John Minick and Mark Ode) he answered yes, it does meet the requirement of being Entirely Independent.

There were no objections from any of the other panel members

Roger
 
iwire

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roger said:
As Dennis stated here the question went to Vince Saporita, who said at first he was going to answer no but, after discussing it with some other panel members, (he specifically stated John Minick and Mark Ode) he answered yes, it does meet the requirement of being Entirely Independent.
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I am going to remain in my opinion of what the words say.
 
roger

roger

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iwire said:
I am going to remain in my opinion of what the words say.
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And that is fine with me, I'll stand by what I have always thought and what the panel members think. :D

Roger
 
iwire

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roger said:
And that is fine with me, I'll stand by what I have always thought and what the panel members think. :D

Roger
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Well I want to remain entirely independent. :D


It is worth noting I have never said I saw a reason for requiring separate enclosures only that I feel the words chosen by the CMP members require it. :cool:
 
roger

roger

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brother said:
I will ASSUME this was NOT a FORMAL interpetation. ;)
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Your assumption is correct, it was and is not a FI, it is a conensus of some CMP members and other industry people.

Roger
 
Dennis Alwon

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brother said:
Well, I also will remain 'entirely independent' and also 'Independent entirely' in my thinking as well. Thanks for the Follow up though. I will ASSUME this was NOT a FORMAL interpetation. ;)
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Is there ever a formal interpretation. You have 6 code panel members who agreed however I am sure there are others who would not agree with this interpretation.

Heck, half the questions asked were interpretations with one answer being "Yes, this is a definite maybe". :D
 
iwire

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brother said:
Well, I also will remain 'entirely independent' and also 'Independent entirely' in my thinking as well. Thanks for the Follow up though. I will ASSUME this was NOT a FORMAL interpetation. ;)
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No not formal but I do rate their opinion higher then my own. :smile:
 
Pierre C Belarge

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roger said:
As a follow up to the 700.9(B) thread I did send a question to the Panel Members which consisted of Vince Saporita, (CMP 11) David Mercier, (CMP 7 Alt) John Minick, (Retired CMP member) Mark Ode, (TCC Alt, CMP 3 Alt, and CMP 4) Jim Carpenter (TCC Chair, although he gave his seat on the panel to Keith Lofland) Keith Lofland, (director of education, codes and standards for IAEI International) Mark Earley, (see pages 9 and 20 of the NEC and the cover of the NECH) Richard Loyd, (CMP 8) and Alan Manche (CMP 10).

Here is the question I sent in.



As Dennis stated here the question went to Vince Saporita, who said at first he was going to answer no but, after discussing it with some other panel members, (he specifically stated John Minick and Mark Ode) he answered yes, it does meet the requirement of being Entirely Independent.

There were no objections from any of the other panel members

Roger
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The names I highlighted, plus the other individuals who attended must of made for a really good meeting. With more than 700 participants, I would like to hear more about the meeting.
The experience of all of those individuals adds up to many, many years...I also agree with them, that the barriers make for a separate enclosure.

Thanks for the follow up there. Any other good stuff from that meeting?
Am I correct in remembering that they publish the questions and answers from this meeting?
 
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Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Pierre C Belarge said:
The names I highlighted, plus the other individuals who attended must of made for a really good meeting. With more than 700 participants, I would like to hear more about the meeting.
The experience of all of those individuals adds up to many, many years...I also agree with them, that the barriers make for a separate enclosure.

Thanks for the follow up there. Any other good stuff from that meeting?
Am I correct in remembering that they publish the questions and answers from this meeting?
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They had a booklet wth 104 questions that they handed out and during some of the sessions we went over the questions. Unfortunately we only got to question 63 or so.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Dennis Alwon said:
I am scanning them now. IT'll take time
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Okay it took me more time to learn how to get my documents on the web (free) since I don't have my web pages from aol anymore.

Instead of listing all the questions on a post you can find them at this address. You will have to get the answers since I don't want to type them all from my notes. If you really are curious I have most of the answer up to question #62. You can Pm me and I will see how bad my notes are.
 
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