Estimating I know times a hard but

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bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
You can pretty much use it [the Master Plumbers link]for any operation...1 man ...mega EC...service...new work...whatever.

You just need to know how much you're paying out to accurately arrive at how much to charge.

K I was trying to remember this 1 from memory. I reviewed it and see where it does ask number of employees whose billable hours is included. It also has a calculate button for that section so it looks like you can take the number from there and use it in other formats.
 

sgr1

Senior Member
That was the actual cost of the labor and materials I thought it would take to do the job without no overhead or profit.
And just so we know this I know my cost.
 

sgr1

Senior Member
The master plumber thing would be nice if I could get that much but if I plugged a $132 into my estimate I would never get a job. Maybe on service work but not commercial work.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
The master plumber thing would be nice if I could get that much but if I plugged a $132 into my estimate I would never get a job. Maybe on service work but not commercial work.

If it's costing you $132...how are you making up the difference?
 

sgr1

Senior Member
If you go by what that master plumber calc. says it would be that much. But I can't that much per hour where I'm at, I would like too. Do you bill out at $132 an for commercial?
 

emahler

Senior Member
If you go by what that master plumber calc. says it would be that much. But I can't that much per hour where I'm at, I would like too. Do you bill out at $132 an for commercial?

the calculator only says what you tell it to say...it doesn't make up a number...it calculates based on what you enter...

so, if what you enter says you need to bill $132/hr....then you either entered something incorrectly....or you need to generate $132/hr...
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
If it's costing you $132...how are you making up the difference?

If you go by what that master plumber calc. says it would be that much. But I can't that much per hour where I'm at, I would like too. Do you bill out at $132 an for commercial?
...that's not really the answer to the question, is it?
Granted it's an answer...to a question that was never asked.



in volume, silly:D

Now that's an answer :smile:
 

emahler

Senior Member
But if we sail strait out for the middle of the ocean, we will fall off the edge, and there be sea monsters about....

Sometimes we got to change our ways of tinking.

damn the torpedos....full speed ahead....It is an evil voyage, I tell thee. If Ahab has his way, neither thee nor me, nor any member of this ship's company will ever see home again.
 

satcom

Senior Member
If you go by what that master plumber calc. says it would be that much. But I can't that much per hour where I'm at, I would like too. Do you bill out at $132 an for commercial?

We had a lot of guys that said they could not charge more, then the new kids on the block charged twice as much or more, and drove the cheap guys out of business, now the higher priced guys have the lions share of the work, working cheap with leave you tired and poor, never look at what the other guys are doing, they can all be doing it wrong.
 

sgr1

Senior Member
Satcom that is true. I think I just picked the worst time time start. Some people are still willing to pay for quality work. But it is sad but true most of them want it done the cheapest. Maybe I just need to sit back and keep bidding what I think (know) its worth for quality work.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Maybe I just need to sit back and keep bidding what I think (know) its worth for quality work.


I think I'd check my numbers again...see if something can be reduced/cut...and still keep bidding those same numbers for quality work:wink:
 

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
Ive had a couple of builders/carpenters tell me im a little high and I should watch the news more, but I see it as Im doing something right if they are complaining a bit.I would be more worried if they didnt say anything about my prices.
 

jmsbrush

Senior Member
Location
Central Florida
Let me say 1st, that this is just my opinion.

What SGR is finding out about his break even cost is more for service work.
Which that number is always higher than what you would use when you are bidding commercial work or residential.
One reason is that on service work the average tech can only bill out for 5 hours a day, hence making the hourly rate more expensive, versus having a guy on the job site from 7:00am to 3:00 pm.
Lets say hypothetically speaking, Your overhead is $5000.00 a month. You bid a commercial job and your take off came up to 50,000. Now you add %10 overhead then 15% for profit.
That's $5000.00 for overhead and $7500.00 for profit.

Merritt shop or union shop, doesn't matter, Lets say total package for a jw is 33.00. Lets say that's the wage you plug in for estimating.
Now lets say that on that same $50000 job your total man hours were 500
The rest was material, lights and gear.
500 hours x $33.00 dollars an hour equals $16,500, Don't forget the tax burden.
You cant take that $132.00 hour labor rate and multiply that number by 500 hours, which will equals $66,000 plus the material which was $33,500.
Total price for the job, $99,500 and still add profit, You will never get a commercial job.$66,000 vs $16,500 labor cost.
I bid allot of commercial and its a very tight market, Jobs are being done at cost right now or sometimes even less. Very disheartening.
My labor rate is $150.00 an hour, But that is not the number I use when I'm bidding commercial or industrial work.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
Most definate that the numbers are higher for service work, because of the non billable hours. That still has no bearing on the issue of "my overhead is low". You can use the calculator to figure your breakeven cost, no matter what type of work you do, even time and material industrial plc programming. Truth is most do not know what their breakeven cost is, and won't try to figure it out. And once they do, they get mad at the number arrived at and decide something is wrong with the calculations. I know I did at first. Heck, you don't need a fancy calculator, add the numbers up from your company ledger. Then divide by the number of hours billable for a year and see what it costs for one of those hours. If that number exceeds what you figure the competion bids at , either lower your costs and compete, or bid high and rely on winning some not all, just watch out for ignoring the breakeven and bid below your cost just because the other guys are low.
 

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
If you go by what that master plumber calc. says it would be that much. But I can't that much per hour where I'm at, I would like too. Do you bill out at $132 an for commercial?

Not for new construction. How do you make up for the numbers? Volume silly. Well volume of hours to divide the overhead amoung. 1 man 40hr weeks x 4 weeks =160 hrs. 9 men 160hr months = 1440hrs. $5,000./160hrs=$31.25hr OH $10,000./1440hrs=$6.94hr OH

9 men can easily be run with less than twice the overhead of 1 man. Remember benefits are not calculated as overhead. That is calculated as laber burden and input in the labor figure. Companies do not get larger to have to increase overhead burden, it decreases it. A 1 truck show has a lot higher overhead number to over come than a larger company. Not the backwards figure everyone wants to believe.

If you want to get involved in the new construction arena and you want to stay small you may need to look at negotiated work. Not competitive bid work. That is where you can get your $132/hr.

The numbers I threw out were based on the $5000. number Jim used in his post and altered to show how size and volume effect them. They are not mine. Use your own.
 
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