excessive permit fees?

CopperTone · Apr 7, 2009

has anyone seen cities and town jack their permit fees this past year?
I am put in a bid yesterday for a job and I called for a permit fee to include in the bid.

my bid for the job was 36,000.00 the permit fee - $3960.00 (this is only electrical)

what? I said - you have got to be kidding me. thank god I called and checked the fee and didn't just estimate it at about $500.00

I was told - "I don't set the fee rates - thats the fee for that job that we are quoting everyone"

I figure as long as everyone carries that number it will be fair - there probably will be one jack hole who doesn't check and will win the bid and find out the hard way that he just lost money on the job.

ItsHot · Apr 7, 2009

steep

steep

Sounds steep to me! "feed the greed"!

nhfire77 · Apr 7, 2009

I just got a permit in a podunk 'city'. Any commercial electrical work requires a $150 minimum permit fee. So I change a broken horn/strobe on the FA for $150 and the permit doubled the cost. The customer nearly laid an egg.

PetrosA · Apr 7, 2009

I know in this area some of the townships are going wild with real estate taxes - as high as 30k for a single family resi (McMansion style home) so permit fees that high wouldn't shock me either. Now they're trying to force some farm owners in heavily built-up areas to sub-divide into buildable lots by jacking up the farm taxes to unmanageable levels. One school district here has recently raised the school tax to something like 4% and that's driving a lot of people out of the district as well. Existing 230k home recently went on the market with taxes over 5k a year combined... (this area is mostly agri based, with not much infrastructure nearby except a Walmart...)

iwire · Apr 7, 2009

As far as I know the majority of cities and towns here in MA are running in the red, raising permit fees will just be one of many increases we see that are outside of our proposition two and halfs reach. The fee for my kids town run summer recreation program has almost doubled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_2½

Rewire · Apr 7, 2009

CopperTone said:
has anyone seen cities and town jack their permit fees this past year?
I am put in a bid yesterday for a job and I called for a permit fee to include in the bid.

my bid for the job was 36,000.00 the permit fee - $3960.00 (this is only electrical)

what? I said - you have got to be kidding me. thank god I called and checked the fee and didn't just estimate it at about $500.00

I was told - "I don't set the fee rates - thats the fee for that job that we are quoting everyone"

I figure as long as everyone carries that number it will be fair - there probably will be one jack hole who doesn't check and will win the bid and find out the hard way that he just lost money on the job.

If the fee based on cost if so the lower the bid the lower the permit fee,so when they ask how much will the job cost you say 10 grand

iwire · Apr 7, 2009

Rewire said:
If the fee based on cost if so the lower the bid the lower the permit fee,so when they ask how much will the job cost you say 10 grand

That will bite you in the rear here.

We all have to use this form.

http://www.frcog.org/services/coop_inspect/apps/eapp.pdf

LarryFine · Apr 7, 2009

nhfire77 said:
I just got a permit in a podunk 'city'. Any commercial electrical work requires a $150 minimum permit fee. So I change a broken horn/strobe on the FA for $150 and the permit doubled the cost. The customer nearly laid an egg.

I'm suprised that you bothered for a permit for a replacement of a device, or that it was required.

nhfire77 · Apr 7, 2009

Irratational Permits

Irratational Permits

LarryFine said:
I'm suprised that you bothered for a permit for a replacement of a device, or that it was required.

Normally you are right, I wouldn't its new hampshire anyway. The building is under scrutiny by all of the inspectors, with good cause.

If it was MA and the inspectors are Letter of the law kind of guys they want a permit for ANYTHING. Its all about the fee money, not safety.

I do not mock the need for permits here, just that if I change a horn strobe that was broken, then drill the system to test all the A/V's including the replaced one, why do you need a permit? Well some AHJ's want permit fee$, nothing else.

You want to talk about unnecessary, in Salem, NH, I changed a broken ceiling tile out around a heat detector in a commerical space. I was spanked by the on duty chief for this. If you TOUCH a wire you need a permit. Only testing does not need a permit. Changing out the batteries? Need a permit for that too. I hear Frammingham, MA is like that too.

nhfire77 · Apr 7, 2009

iwire said:
As far as I know the majority of cities and towns here in MA are running in the red, raising permit fees will just be one of many increases we see that are outside of our proposition two and halfs reach. The fee for my kids town run summer recreation program has almost doubled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_2½

I love how you have to link to prop 21/2 to explain b/c its sooooooo crazy.

growler · Apr 7, 2009

CopperTone said:
my bid for the job was 36,000.00 the permit fee - $3960.00 (this is only electrical)

That does sound very high. Maybe there is some sort of "Impact Fee" associated with this project.

If there is an impact fee on this particular project then other projects may not be so expensive to permit.

They should be able to tell you how the arrive at the cost of a permit. Either they charge per item or a percentage of the job cost, or just make it up as they go along.

satcom · Apr 7, 2009

growler said:
That does sound very high. Maybe there is some sort of "Impact Fee" associated with this project.

If there is an impact fee on this particular project then other projects may not be so expensive to permit.

They should be able to tell you how the arrive at the cost of a permit. Either they charge per item or a percentage of the job cost, or just make it up as they go along.

The way some do it is they price it up after the plan review.

Fulthrotl · Apr 7, 2009

CopperTone said:
has anyone seen cities and town jack their permit fees this past year?

my bid for the job was 36,000.00 the permit fee - $3960.00 (this is only electrical)

it's happening everywhere. this is about the highest i've heard of tho. over 10%?

around here, people pull permits when they have to, obviously. to assist them
in having to, the city building department gets a list from the trash franchise
here of every address a dumpster is delivered to. within two or three hours of
bin drop, and inspector drives by to see if unpermitted work is being done.

friend of mine did extensive work on his house, moving a bathroom, 6 dozen
can lights, etc. hauled his own trash to the dump. no problem.

another house i did work on, did similar stuff, with a kitchen remodel. i
cautioned the owner about the bin deal, and his words were, "thanks, but i
know what i'm doing"......

the bin was there about an hour, and here comes the inspector.... just as i'm
starting to flex the kitchen.

he asks where the permit is, and i point him at
the owner, and go back to work....

the permit for the kitchen, and bath remodel, was over $2,000, 'cause the
fees are doubled if you get caught working without a permit....

thank god he knew what he was doing. whew. that's a load off.....

iwire · Apr 7, 2009

LarryFine said:
I'm suprised that you bothered for a permit for a replacement of a device, or that it was required.

Larry in this area all the town FDs are different some would let you do anything without a permit, other towns will have you arrested (Really, it has happened) for just some simple troubleshooting.

iwire · Apr 7, 2009

nhfire77 said:
Changing out the batteries? Need a permit for that too. I hear Frammingham, MA is like that too.

Framingham, permit needed for testing as well, permit needed for just thinking about looking at a fire alarm device.

Also they want cut sheets for any replaced equipment

hillbilly · Apr 7, 2009

iwire said:
Framingham, permit needed for testing as well, permit needed for just thinking about looking at a fire alarm device.

Also they want cut sheets for any replaced equipment

Great...

On a happier note, I hear that we're fighting for Freedom in Iraq.

It's all about the money.
We can't expect the "recession" to affect the government too....can we?
I mean....actually lay a few bueracrats off?
Let go a few county vehicles?
Cut a few hours?

Just venting
steve

mayjong · Apr 7, 2009

dang, that is 10% of valuation...
ours is 1% of valuation...

brian john · Apr 7, 2009

CopperTone said:
has anyone seen cities and town jack their permit fees this past year?
.

I did not call, normal price should have been between $300.00-$500.00 new price was $1,250.00, lost a little on that one but learned not to wing some things.

kelley · Apr 7, 2009

iwire said:
Framingham, permit needed for testing as well, permit needed for just thinking about looking at a fire alarm device.

Also they want cut sheets for any replaced equipment

I work out of the Metro-west area. Bob you could not be more right. They are a tough bunch in there.

Though i will say that the Fire Alarm superintendant is one knowledgeable guy.

When you come to Framingham come prepared.

electricalperson · Apr 7, 2009

well i know one town to cross of my list to work in

excessive permit fees?

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