Fire Alarm Norms

[kkwong]

OR

A moron is playing with the buttons on the controller.

LOL :grin:

Peter...that's what makes fire alarms so much fun

 

[George Stolz]

I can't quote the exact section, but I think its somewhere in Ch 10 and I'm pretty darn sure its only at the top of the elevator shaft.

I ask because someone of authority required the smokes/heats to be removed from the top and bottom from the shaft.

 

[benaround]

George, It's been my experence that the shaft 'heat detectors' will activate

the 'shunt breaker' to open. If no back-up system is installed the elevator car

will stop whereever it is. All in all Peter has it right, town to town it's all what

the 'man' wants.

 

[quogueelectric]

Thanks all, for the replies.


That kind of captured my feeling about the event, but the fire alarm tech (with 12 more years of experience in it than I have) was aghast at the idea.

For clarification, there are flow switches that set off alarms, and the horn/strobe on the front of the building outside the riser room is directly connected to the FACP and runs with waterflow only (dry system included).

There are also flows on every floor, that send a unique message to the monitoring company that they may know which floor has triggered the alarm. Among other fun whistles and bells.

Question 2:

Are heat detectors and smokes required in elevator shafts? Top and bottom?
(By what?)

George dont you have a set of drawings that you go by? Where I am if you dont have a stamped approved set of drawings from the fire marshal and you get caught running even 1 wire without these drawings you are subject to criminal prosecution and a personal 10,000$ fine. It is no joke. They dont want anyone designing systems without fire marshal input and approval. It just makes me wonder why they are so strict by me and it seems like other areas the electrician is just winging it.

 

[George Stolz]

Quoque, didn't you see me say that people of authority were making the changes?

 

[kkwong]

I ask because someone of authority required the smokes/heats to be removed from the top and bottom from the shaft.

Look at 6.15.3 (NFPA 72-02) and A.6.15.3.10. Unless your FI is working off NFPA 72-07 (Which I haven't adopted yet) the only mention of heats/smokes is at the top of the shaft and a heat in the elevator control room. Maybe that's what he's using?:-?

I know some "control pits" are equipped like that...

Edit to add: do you have a state agency that governs elevators? CA has OSHA and that could be one of their requirements...I was way off on the CH10...

 

[George Stolz]

Look at 6.15.3 (NFPA 72-02) and A.6.15.3.10. Unless your FI is working off NFPA 72-07 (Which I haven't adopted yet) the only mention of heats/smokes is at the top of the shaft and a heat in the elevator control room. Maybe that's what he's using?:-?

I know some "control pits" are equipped like that...

The plans originally showed a heat and a smoke at the top of the shaft, a heat and a smoke at the bottom of the shaft, and a heat and a smoke in the equipment room at the top floor.

The Fire Department required the detectors be removed from the shaft.

The elevator inspector (works for the state, I think?) required a smoke be installed in the top of the shaft to operate a smoke relief damper at the top of the shaft - he was agreeable to only installing a smoke, and making it supervisory only (so no fire trucks would be dispatched to the site for a smoke in the shaft).

I thought it was a little strange to remove all detection from the shaft, but this was my first rodeo.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[kkwong]

The plans originally showed a heat and a smoke at the top of the shaft, a heat and a smoke at the bottom of the shaft, and a heat and a smoke in the equipment room at the top floor.

The Fire Department required the detectors be removed from the shaft.

The elevator inspector (works for the state, I think?) required a smoke be installed in the top of the shaft to operate a smoke relief damper at the top of the shaft - he was agreeable to only installing a smoke, and making it supervisory only (so no fire trucks would be dispatched to the site for a smoke in the shaft).

I thought it was a little strange to remove all detection from the shaft, but this was my first rodeo.

Thanks for the reply.

No problem. Glad you enjoyed the ride.

I find it odd that a smoke in the shaft is going to supervisory...but that's why I don't work for the state.

 

[quogueelectric]

The plans originally showed a heat and a smoke at the top of the shaft, a heat and a smoke at the bottom of the shaft, and a heat and a smoke in the equipment room at the top floor.

The Fire Department required the detectors be removed from the shaft.

The elevator inspector (works for the state, I think?) required a smoke be installed in the top of the shaft to operate a smoke relief damper at the top of the shaft - he was agreeable to only installing a smoke, and making it supervisory only (so no fire trucks would be dispatched to the site for a smoke in the shaft).

I thought it was a little strange to remove all detection from the shaft, but this was my first rodeo.

Thanks for the reply.

I am usually the idiot on the top of the cab installing the smoke detectors/ smoke hatch/ pit smokes/ Alt floor relays /cab recall relays w/shunt trip/loby alt floor smoke detection at each floor/While I am down there do the pit light and service receptacle. I have done dozens of them. When you do just make sure you lock out the cab power to the hydraulic unit or whatever powers the cab. It will squish you like a bug if you let it.

 

[scottysolar]

the pump needs to run to keep the system presurized no ?

 

[kkwong]

the pump needs to run to keep the system presurized no ?

In reference to the fire pump, yes. Its installed when the water utility cannot provide the necessary flow for a given occupancy/hazard.