fire wall outlets

[Trouyano]

i installed an electrical box for an outlet in a strip store, on the wall separating the stores. the wall was a double 5/8 drywall wall. i installed the outlet in a plastic box and i think this is wrong. also i believe low voltage old work metal rings would not be allowed on a fire wall.

 

[Energize]

i installed an electrical box for an outlet in a strip store, on the wall separating the stores. the wall was a double 5/8 drywall wall. i installed the outlet in a plastic box and i think this is wrong. also i believe low voltage old work metal rings would not be allowed on a fire wall.

Is this a question or a confession?

 

[cowboyjwc]

Most of the plastic boxes are 2hr floor/ceiling rated.

You are correct that the low voltage must be in a box also. You may not use a "tiger-girp" box in a rated wall either. The box must be securly fastened to the structure.

 

[nyerinfl]

The box must be securly fastened to the structure.

I understand this statement, but is there a legal way to install any type of old work box, such as if it were fished in, in a rated firewall? Is there a box specific for this pupose to be code compliant? I don't see cutting a big hole in a wall to mount a stud mounted box as the only way to set a new box into an existing firewall, is there such a box?

 

[Trouyano]

what is a "tiger-girp" box?

 

[kkwong]

Troy-

Its one of the names for a metallic remodel box or old work box.

 

[roger]

Here's an old thread that may be of interest.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=85621http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=85621&page=2

Roger

 

[cowboyjwc]

I understand this statement, but is there a legal way to install any type of old work box, such as if it were fished in, in a rated firewall? Is there a box specific for this pupose to be code compliant? I don't see cutting a big hole in a wall to mount a stud mounted box as the only way to set a new box into an existing firewall, is there such a box?

No, not that I know of at least and the problem with cutting into a fire wall, is to be an approved repair, you have to cut the drywall from stud to stud. Now if it's double layered then you have to cut it back to the next set of studs because the joints can't overlap.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Troy-

Its one of the names for a metallic remodel box or old work box.

And I've never understood why we called them old work boxes when they are for new work. :-?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

but is there a legal way to install any type of old work box, such as if it were fished in, in a rated firewall? Is there a box specific for this pupose to be code compliant?

I guess if you were lucky enough to find the stud you could fasten your box to the side of the stud with screws through the box into the metal studs.

 

[kkwong]

And I've never understood why we called them old work boxes when they are for new work. :-?

One of the many mysteries of life that keeps the trade fun Its like the age old question: what came first the hot or the ground ;-)

 

[nyerinfl]

I guess if you were lucky enough to find the stud you could fasten your box to the side of the stud with screws through the box into the metal studs.

Doesn't it seem a little crazy that something like that can be prohibited without any alternative legal method? I've got a job now that I'm going to cut boxes into the firewall, as it would be way too much of a pain in the... to do it any other way, since there really isn't any anyway.

 

[stickboy1375]

And I've never understood why we called them old work boxes when they are for new work. :-?

Kind of the same as why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway?
Why do we call them buildings when they are already built?

 

[480sparky]

what is a "tiger-girp" box?

 

[stickboy1375]

I just call them old work low voltage rings... too easy I guess.

 

[mdshunk]

There's only one box that I am aware of that is designed so that you can compliantly use it in old work in a fire wall. That's the Arlington One-Box. It secures to wood or steel studs through the inside of the box, and has 1/2 and 3/4 eccentric knockouts. The manufacturer doesn't mention the fire rating on their site, but I have one in my hand, and around the UL mark it says "CLASS 2 HR WC". I went ahead and took a picture of that marking, since I think it's a pretty big deal:

 

[roger]

Doesn't it seem a little crazy that something like that can be prohibited without any alternative legal method? I've got a job now that I'm going to cut boxes into the firewall, as it would be way too much of a pain in the... to do it any other way, since there really isn't any anyway.

So you are saying you will knowingly alter this wall with an unapproved method and leave it as an unrated assembly? This is taking an awful big risk don't you think?

Whether we like something or not, or, if it will be a pain in the... has no bearing on being held liable.

I would use something like Marc posted or simply include some money in my quote for opening and repairing sections of the walls.

Roger

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Was romex allowed in this building ?

 

[Trouyano]

when it was built romex was allowed

 

[nyerinfl]

So you are saying you will knowingly alter this wall with an unapproved method and leave it as an unrated assembly? This is taking an awful big risk don't you think?
Roger

I don't like to intentionally violate any code, and I do my best to not do so, and in this instance I will look for every alternative to say cutting a box into a firewall, but sometimes the drawings speak for themselves, and I'm not about to run down the wall with wiremold. Unfortunatley, you can't do it 100% right 100% of the time, but I always try to.

Also if I included for cutting open and repairing the wall, I wouldn't have the job.