Flouresent Question...

[vramp7]

I had a customer call me because the light on his ceiling fan light was smoking. When i checked it out the sockets looked ok no burning marks at all. I started looking at the bulbs (self ballasted flouresent bulb) and noticed some burning at where the glass from the bulb was going into the base. I found the one bulb that the owner saw smoke and it smelled very burnt. I figured that it was the bulb and not the socket. But my ques is has anyone else ran into this problem with this kind of self ballasted bulb? It seems people are using these bulbs more now due too "saving electricity". But not if there going to catch on fire....

 

[sparkzilla]

I was watching TV one night, and saw smoke rising from my floor lamp. I looked closer, and it was the flourescent bulb going bad. I didn't let it continue to find out how bad it would get.

 

[brian john]

Spark:

Where is your sense of adventure?

 

[ptonsparky]

Maybe the AFCIs will catch those fires in the future. The average customer will be saving enough money on his utility bill with the new lamps that they may be able to afford to have one of us come out and search for the bad one that tripped the AFCI. Sounds good to me.

 

[petersonra]

I had one do that in a ceiling fan.

Regular CF bulbs seem to be somewhat position sensitive. I do not think some of them like being bulb down. The CF spots seem to do OK but the globe ones don't do so well upside down.

Just an observation.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have been having a lot of concerns about the use of these CF lamps being installed in fixtures that have not been tested for their use.

Many people are using them in recessed cans and I know that Halo has not tested these fixtures for CF. They have some that are rated for the CF but the standard ones have not.

I will not put in a CF on install. If the ho wants to change it out it is at their risk, not mine.

One last thing--- if a fixture is rated for 60 watt does that mean you can use a 60 watt fluorescent or do you have to use a CF that is equivalent to 60 watt.

I think there needs to be a lot of education on these issues.

 

[benmin]

I had one do that in a ceiling fan.

Regular CF bulbs seem to be somewhat position sensitive. I do not think some of them like being bulb down. The CF spots seem to do OK but the globe ones don't do so well upside down.

Just an observation.

I have heard rumors of that.

 

[vramp7]

Ive had these bulbs in my basment utility area in just keyless sockets for about 6 months and had no signs of burning marks or other problems yet... Ballasts get hot and thats why there in metal fixtures, so when u put a ballast in a plastic base that u can screw into a socket that spells trouble. That creats more work for us afcis, a new house mabe, but a saftey hazard for the customers.The bulbs that smoked were about 2 years old so mabe the manufactures are making them better now? I hope.

 

[zbang]

I have been having a lot of concerns about the use of these CF lamps being installed in fixtures that have not been tested for their use.

Many people are using them in recessed cans and I know that Halo has not tested these fixtures for CF. They have some that are rated for the CF but the standard ones have not.

From what I've been able to tell (and now I'm going to have to read some more datasheets), CF lamps are fine "base up" if there's enough air circulation to keep the base cool. Most recessed cans are designed for the higher base temp that incandescents can tolerate.

FWIW, older-style theater lights had specific "base-up" lamps where the filament was farther from the base and closer to the glass end. If you tried these base down, you had failures where the glass overheated.

One last thing--- if a fixture is rated for 60 watt does that mean you can use a 60 watt fluorescent or do you have to use a CF that is equivalent to 60 watt.

As far as the fixture is concerned, heat/watts dissipated is all that matters. Light produced has nothing to do with the ratings.

 

[mdshunk]

Consider also that these CF's are flooding in from parts unknown, by manufacturers of all sorts. That quality is surely bound to be lacking in some brands. Might get better service form a recognizable brand.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The point I was trying to make is that we should not be putting CFL in any fixture that has not been listed for it.
Recessed cans tell you what bulb and what trims are compatible with the fixture. Once we go beyond that scope we have violated the listing.

 

[mdshunk]

The point I was trying to make is that we should not be putting CFL in any fixture that has not been listed for it.
Recessed cans tell you what bulb and what trims are compatible with the fixture. .

The labeling that I'm famaliar with, in accordance with the UL Marking Guide for Luminaires, lists maximum values. Certainly you can install a lamp that is less than these values. The common curly-cue CFL's are A-19 style. Most every can light will list at least some wattage of A-19 style lamp that can be accomodated within. Even the most common large A-19 package CFL is only around 25 watts, which is way under the max listing on most recessed cans. Some CFL's are R30 and R50 style, and their wattages are very low when compared with their incandescent counterparts, and would be perfectly acceptable in can lights. Maybe I'm missing something, but that's my understanding at this point.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Marc

When I called Halo they would not take a stance on the CFL's
They insisted that the cans were not listed for their use and that they made cans that would accomodate CFL"s.

 

[chris kennedy]

I installed about 50 low bay 40 watt CF in the common areas of a high rise about 2 years ago. A third were on gen. backup. When we transfered to gen., none of the EM lamps lit. After a few calls to Advanced Ballasts, I spoke to a gentleman that asked for the code # from the lamps. He told me those lamps were made overseas. I went to Lightbulbs Unlimited (love that store) and found 6 in stock made in the US. We let the new lamps warm up and reach full output. We transfered to gen. and the new lamps lit no problems. Original and new lamps were both Sylvaina. Thought I had a electronic ballast problem, never would have figured lamps.

 

[al hildenbrand]

the light on his ceiling fan light was smoking. . . I figured that it was the bulb and not the socket. . .

vramp,

Did the paddlefan have any dimming setting on the lamp pull chain (if there was a pull chain), or was the wall switch a multi-control that talked to dimming electronics in the paddlefan, or was the switch for the lamps, in any way, a dimmer?

At this time very few CFLs are rated for dimming, at all. There are some, but few. Most consumers don't know this, or give it a concern when purchasing the CFL.

The CFL electronic ballast can fail, destructively, depending upon the interaction of the particular ballast and particular dimmer actually present.

 

[ghostbuster]

You may want to check out this latest news link and video on this CFL problem.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_9058.aspx

 

[ghostbuster]

Here is a much longer video and info on the CFL problem.

http://www.citynews.ca/blogs/blogs_8541.aspx?contenturl=http://www.citynews.ca/blogs/8802.aspx

 

[JohnJ0906]

The labeling that I'm famaliar with, in accordance with the UL Marking Guide for Luminaires, lists maximum values. Certainly you can install a lamp that is less than these values. The common curly-cue CFL's are A-19 style. Most every can light will list at least some wattage of A-19 style lamp that can be accomodated within. Even the most common large A-19 package CFL is only around 25 watts, which is way under the max listing on most recessed cans. Some CFL's are R30 and R50 style, and their wattages are very low when compared with their incandescent counterparts, and would be perfectly acceptable in can lights. Maybe I'm missing something, but that's my understanding at this point.

I would think that it is the HEAT output that matters. I wonder what wattage CFL is equivalent to what wattage incandesent as far as heat goes

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would think that it is the HEAT output that matters. I wonder what wattage CFL is equivalent to what wattage incandesent as far as heat goes

That what I have been trying to find out. If we, as electricians, don't have the answer how can we expect the HO to know these issues.

I think the public is getting a raw deal without the education of these issues.

I know this ain't safe

 

[robbietan]

the better known CFL manufacturers provide both a lumen output and an equivalent brightness of an incandescent bulb. One bulb I have here is 11W CFL = 45W incandescent. and they are not position sensitive- upside down, rightside up, sideways - dont matter to the bulb

yes, better watch out where they manufacture the CFLs as some have single frequency ratings. Most of the better buys here have dual 50Hz/60Hz ratings and are 190V - 240V rated.

and the fine print says that the bulb must already be lit for it to run on 190V. Meaning '"cannot light the CFL on 190V", wait for a 220V supply first.