fusing to obtain Class 2

[iwire]

No I am not saying that.

Well I fail to see the difference between what you did say and my question.

Unless the equipment being brought into a venue or store etc had been built to a standard or listing the inspector can certainly concern themselves with it.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Ok so you are saying the AHJ has nothing to say about oh lets say a fair or carnival?

Not part of a building at all, entirely temporary in nature.

An interesting side story... several years ago, I was the technical director for a small Chicago theater company. For those that don't know, the TD's job is to manage the technical aspects of a production. Lighting, sound, wardrobe, etc... are left to others (though the TD often coordinates interaction between departments) but the TD is responsible for the set's construction (among many other things). The TD is also often the point of contact with outside vendors, authorities, etc... The production had several "fire" elements in it. Nothing more than a couple of scenes with a lit candle, but Chicago is still quite twitchy about fire in theaters.

However, in order to meet the requirements of the insurance for the theater space we were renting, we had to arrange a visit with the fire inspector. As TD, that job fell to me. I knew him from earlier productions around the city, and once he saw that we had the required fire plan, extinguishers, and proper evac routes for the audience, he was happy to sign off. We got to talking when he noticed the rather large amount of in-set practical wiring on the set; mostly wall sconces and several functioning receptacles wired back to dimmers to control floor lamps.

The lighting was wired with SO cable, as is standard with theatrical wiring just about everywhere. Where needed, fixtures had proper back boxes, and cabling was neatly routed backstage. He told me that while the NEC states that "temporary" theater sets can be in place no longer than 90 days, practicality dictated that the time limit be waived, productions often run longer than three months. His office had decided that, so long as in-set wiring was done safely and neatly, the prohibition on SO cable in a "permanent" install wouldn't apply. They did do inspections, and damn sure expected everything to be done safely - grounded properly, no overloaded circuits or plugs, etc.. - but they weren't going to make everyone suddenly have to rewire their sets in EMT on day 91 of a show run.

I guess where I'm going with this is that the strange things we're often tasked with doing in the entertainment world often don't fit neatly into easily defined categories. The inspectors I've talked to in these instances have all been friendly, reasonable people, and I've found them to be able to come to a mutually agreeable and safe solution. As the Chicago inspector told me, "The NEC is supposed to be keeping people safe, not raking people over the coals. Creative solutions can still do that."



SceneryDriver

 

[iwire]

I was trying to bite my tongue earlier but then you continued on.

I guess where I'm going with this is that the strange things we're often tasked with doing in the entertainment world often don't fit neatly into easily defined categories.

And you think they do in electrical construction?

You don't think we have designers trying to leave us 4 sq ft for 40 sq ft of equipment?

You do understand sq footage costs money so there is always pressure from the owners down the line to give the trades as little of the building as possible.

Access panels? No way, we don't want to see access panels in this room.

We can't have that ugly red device on that wall Sorry the fire codes say you will no matter how badly it ruins the look you where going for.

The inspectors I've talked to in these instances have all been friendly, reasonable people, and I've found them to be able to come to a mutually agreeable and safe solution. As the Chicago inspector told me, "The NEC is supposed to be keeping people safe, not raking people over the coals. Creative solutions can still do that."

And that is wrong.

Its wrong because it is not fair to those that bid the job based on following the rules.

The times I have worked with the entertainment industry their sense of entitlement (the show must go on) and their view that the codes are just suggestions really turns me off to them.

For instance the stage worker that was listed as 'master electrician' and when I talked to him he was not licensed or trained. In this state becoming a master is a tough deal, many years in the trade, many hours of school. To me it is a fraud for this person, and the venue to call him a 'master electrician'. Don't get me wrong, very talented guy, he would repair the inner workings of mixing boards and dimmer systems but his building wiring methods where downright dangerous. For instance to organize the circuits in backstage panels he moved all the circuits around but did not notice / know / care that the circuits used common neutrals and now he had made it so the neutrals could be overloaded.

The AHJ doesn't care about scenery. In this case though, this is for a permanently installed setup in a store.

Here you would need to be UL listed shop, or be a licensed electrician to provide wiring in a store.

Anyway, as the AHJ said, the bottom line is that there's nothing here to create an unsafe condition, so he is willing to sign off.

Sign off on it or not you are fully liable for that violation ... and it remains a violtion even if the inspector lets it happen.

Stepping off of the soap box now.

 

[petersonra]

I am not a huge fan of government control of our lives, but if they are going to exert control they ought to do so in an even handed way.

Personally, I don't see why the 90 day requirement could not be handled by just unplugging everything one day when they are not being used anyway.

I am not all that concerned about what titles are given by employers to their employees. There are some PEs who make noises about unlicensed people who have engineering titles, but are not PEs. If they are doing engineering work, I don't see any reason to call them gardeners.

If someone is doing the electrical work on a set calling him an electrician seems appropriate to me. If he is really good at it calling him a master electrician seems like an acknowledgement of his skill level that he has earned, and not an insult to someone else with the same title doing something only vaguely related.

I have been in a lot of plants where the electricians would have a tough time running rigid pipe and making it look nice, but are able to keep complex machines running where the typical construction electrician that can run beautiful pipe would be just scratching his head.