Getting around 120% rule without line side tap

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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
There's this whole big debate that if you use the wrong type of screws when you are bonding to the panels that it will erode. I don't know exactly what he's looking for as it's not something that I concern myself with since the installers have such a long warranty on their installs.
I understand how some dissimilar metals will electrochemically react in an outdoor environment to cause corrosion issues; it's why you never put copper in direct contact with aluminum on PV arrays. It's also why stainless steel hardware is used, but I was not aware that any particular alloy of SS is required, and as I said, some stainless is magnetic and some is not. I'm not sure what that inspector's magnet test shows him.
 

SolarPro

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
He's trying to avoid scenarios like the one here. In this photo, a indoor-rated aluminum lug is used in an exterior location. Since the grounding set screw is not stainless, it corrodes when exposed to the elements. In this case, the hardware used to attach the grounding lug to the module frame appears to be stainless. If it weren't, it would rust just like the set screw.

The appropriate grounding lug with the same form factor is tin-plated copper and has a stainless set screw. These tin-plated grounding lugs should be attached to the PV module using stainless steel hardware. If the mounting hardware is not stainless, it will corrode over time. It sounds like the inspector you mention is verifying that stainless hardware is used to mount grounding lugs.
 

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SolarPro

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
I understand how some dissimilar metals will electrochemically react in an outdoor environment to cause corrosion issues; it's why you never put copper in direct contact with aluminum on PV arrays. It's also why stainless steel hardware is used, but I was not aware that any particular alloy of SS is required, and as I said, some stainless is magnetic and some is not. I'm not sure what that inspector's magnet test shows him.

Right. But even if it's not a 100% screen for non-stainless hardware, it will identify hardware that is definitely stainless. (Regardless, I'm not sure this would be my main concern in a desert environment.)
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Right. But even if it's not a 100% screen for non-stainless hardware, it will identify hardware that is definitely stainless. (Regardless, I'm not sure this would be my main concern in a desert environment.)
I don't disagree, I was just trying to show that different inspectors have different concerns. He's actually on the beach where he is, so corrosion can be an even bigger concern.
 

SolarPro

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
10-4. In that case it's a perfect example of your point. In a coastal environment, material choices are a huge consideration. Move inland to a desert and other issues will take priority.

I think one of the unacknowledged challenges with center-fed panels is that some of the existing equipment is just old. While center-fed panels aren't common in Austin, TX like they are in parts of CA, we'd run into them from time to time. In every case I can think of, the equipment was decades old. If I was an engineer or an inspector, I wouldn't have any confidence approving modifications to that existing equipment.

We upgraded a lot of service equipment that would have been a-okay for decades if left alone. But sometimes if you want to modify something, the more responsible thing to do is to upgrade it. That's the kind of judgement call that an AHJ needs to make, because the Code can't do so.

The real benefit of the revised language in NEC 2014 RE: center-fed panels is that it allows for a PE to take liability off of the AHJ, which may allow for more installations without equipment upgrades. This language has probably been quoted in this thread already; if not here it is:

(d) Connections shall be permitted on multiple-ampacity busbars or center-fed panelboards where designed under engineering supervision that includes fault studies and busbar load calculations.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
10-4. In that case it's a perfect example of your point. In a coastal environment, material choices are a huge consideration. Move inland to a desert and other issues will take priority.

I think one of the unacknowledged challenges with center-fed panels is that some of the existing equipment is just old. While center-fed panels aren't common in Austin, TX like they are in parts of CA, we'd run into them from time to time. In every case I can think of, the equipment was decades old. If I was an engineer or an inspector, I wouldn't have any confidence approving modifications to that existing equipment.

We upgraded a lot of service equipment that would have been a-okay for decades if left alone. But sometimes if you want to modify something, the more responsible thing to do is to upgrade it. That's the kind of judgement call that an AHJ needs to make, because the Code can't do so.

The real benefit of the revised language in NEC 2014 RE: center-fed panels is that it allows for a PE to take liability off of the AHJ, which may allow for more installations without equipment upgrades. This language has probably been quoted in this thread already; if not here it is:
Yep and as inspectors we love this stuff.:happyyes:
 
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