GFCI sporadic tripping

[Gac66610]

got a call a gfci was tripping about once a day, went to check it out found a loop on the load side of gfci plug ... feed from load side to plug 1, feed from plug 1 to plug 2, feed from plug 2 to plug 3, feed from plug 3 back to plug 1, not sure how this happened but it's what i found.
the only thing plugged into the circuit was a charger for a cordless phone, was removed, homeowner still reported tripping, outdoor plugs were dry, covered with inuse weather resistant covers
i disconnected the loop hoping to cure the sporadic tripping, any thoughts?
thanks

 

[ptonsparky]

I doubt the loop in itself is the problem. You need to meg the load wires, remove them from the gfci first. Short of a megger use the best meter you have for ohms. The typical 2K of most testers won't get it. Load side Hot to EG, Neutral to EG. Just because the outdoor devices are dry when you are there doesn't mean they are all day long. GFCI's are relatively cheap. Moreso than a return call. I will often replace them if they have any age, and I cannot find other probable causes. (Remember, I have a megger.)

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Gac66610]

yeah i didnt think the loop would cause it, especially with no load. i also replaced the gfci was planning on giving them a curteousy call to see if any problems still exsist.

thanks

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am not sure how a gfci trips without a load other then rain getting into an outlet outdoors or a fault somewhere. Did you open every recep.? I suspect there is something like an automatic sprinkler setup that may be causing the problem.

 

[Gac66610]

i agree not sure how it could trip without a load but thats the claim, i also believe if it has something to do with the wire it would trip instantly not once a day or once everyother day, two of the plugs are on a deck over 12ft high, the other is on a patio 15ft from edge of concrete, having doubts that sprinkler would reach

yes opened every outlet ableing me to find the loop in circuit

 

[mike_kilroy]

cheap gfci?

cheap gfci?

I've seen 3-4 low cost ($9) GFCI units just go bad and begin nuisance tripping in the last 10 years; replacing them just fixes the problem.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

i agree not sure how it could trip without a load but thats the claim, i also believe if it has something to do with the wire it would trip instantly not once a day or once everyother day, two of the plugs are on a deck over 12ft high, the other is on a patio 15ft from edge of concrete, having doubts that sprinkler would reach

yes opened every outlet ableing me to find the loop in circuit

I am not saying the sprinklers are making the outlets get wet but I have seen the sprinkler systems- usually plugged in a garage circuit cause the gfci to trip. Usually this happens after a surge of some sort. The surge messes up the sprinkler control box.

 

[K8MHZ]

I am not saying the sprinklers are making the outlets get wet but I have seen the sprinkler systems- usually plugged in a garage circuit cause the gfci to trip. Usually this happens after a surge of some sort. The surge messes up the sprinkler control box.

I had a GFCI breaker issue on a sprinkler system. The HO wanted to get rid of the breaker and replace it with a standard one. I said no. I started poking around and found a UF cable buried right next to a sidewalk that had been nicked by a shovel. The breaker was actually doing it's job.

 

[Gac66610]

Ah yes, if there is a sprinkler system its not on this circuit, this circuit consist of 2 plugs on a wet bar (when i say wet bar there is a sink) and 3 outdoor plugs. has anyone ever heard of a battery charger for a cordless phone causing a gfci to trip?

 

[kwired]

Does it still trip if the cordless phone charger is removed from the circuit? I'm almost willing to bet it does. You positive there is no other outlets or loads? No refrigerator in the wet bar area? Bad defrost heater in a refrigerator is a good mystery sometimes for GFCI tripping.

 

[Gac66610]

Only other plug is a wine cooler in front of the gfci receptacle, just talked to homeowner, it tripped sometimes during the night. Nothing is plugged in, wondering if wire has a nail or screw in it just enough, causing it to trip when it cools down at night? Will have to dig deeper

Thanks for all replys

 

[kwired]

Only other plug is a wine cooler in front of the gfci receptacle, just talked to homeowner, it tripped sometimes during the night. Nothing is plugged in, wondering if wire has a nail or screw in it just enough, causing it to trip when it cools down at night? Will have to dig deeper

Thanks for all replys

Is this wine cooler on the GFCI? If it is I would look harder at it. It does not have to be something that trips constantly just when right conditions are present. Like I said before I have seen failed defrost heaters in refrigerators be a problem - the wine cooler may not have a defroster as it probably does not get cold enough for that to be necessary - I still wouldn't rule the cooler out though.

 

[Gac66610]

Wine cooler is not protected by the gfci, it is on the same circuit. I have never heard of a load in front of a gfci causing a trip, but, I'm sure stranger things happen

 

[ptonsparky]

Items on different circuits will trip a gfci but those are not common problems. Time to buy a megger.

 

[Gac66610]

sounds like it, and try to find time to get back and check it out

Thanks again

 

[the blur]

one expensive way to find it, is replace every outlet in the run with a GFI.

connect them all to the line side, and your done.

 

[ptonsparky]

one expensive way to find it, is replace every outlet in the run with a GFI.

connect them all to the line side, and your done.

That wont do much for the "nail thru wire" problem but sure is legal. Could be very expensive.

 

[the blur]

That wont do much for the "nail thru wire" problem but sure is legal. Could be very expensive.

But the GFI's won't be looking at the romex in the wall. It will only be looking at the load that is plugged in.

 

[ptonsparky]

But the GFI's won't be looking at the romex in the wall. It will only be looking at the load that is plugged in.

Exactly. Maybe the problem isn't the "load that is plugged in".

 

[handy10]

got a call a gfci was tripping about once a day, went to check it out found a loop on the load side of gfci plug ... feed from load side to plug 1, feed from plug 1 to plug 2, feed from plug 2 to plug 3, feed from plug 3 back to plug 1, not sure how this happened but it's what i found.
the only thing plugged into the circuit was a charger for a cordless phone, was removed, homeowner still reported tripping, outdoor plugs were dry, covered with inuse weather resistant covers
i disconnected the loop hoping to cure the sporadic tripping, any thoughts?
thanks

You did say that you replaced the gfi receptacle? It sounds like there are only three receptacles on the load side of the gfi. I suggest that you remove all three and see if the gfi still trips. If not, the problem is being caused by something in the receptacles that were removed. If it does trip, the problem is with the wiring (nail ?). If the problem is in the wiring, move the gfi to the next outlet and repeat the above process. You will be able to determine which part of the wiring is causing the problem without buying a megger though that would likely be a good investment.