Home Inspector and pendant lights over tub

[Mule]

(D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord connected
luminaires (fixtures), chain-, cable-, or cordsuspended-
luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or
ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a
zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft)
vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall
threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the
zone directly over the tub or shower stall. Luminaires
(lighting fixtures) located in this zone shall be listed for
damp locations, or listed for wet locations where subject to
shower spray.

IE: If it is one of the luminaries listed it can't be in the all encompassing zone, if it is one that is allowed to be within the all encompassing zone then it must meet the last sentence of the requirement to be within that zone....atleast thats how I read it....so surface mounted luminare within the encompassing zone 3' x 8' would need to be damp location rated...

( 2005 NEC )

So. I should use "Rust-oleum" on the open can trim?

 

[radiopet]

Sure why not......funny thing is my my bathroom has a recess can about 2 feet from the shower area ( metal trim ) and it has been like that for some 12 years and no rust at all...standard ole metal trim....but no I am not going to run out and buy some paint anytime soon.....lol..

The paint that is on the trim seems to be doing just fine.

 

[Mule]

Sure why not......funny thing is my my bathroom has a recess can about 2 feet from the shower area ( metal trim ) and it has been like that for some 12 years and no rust at all...standard ole metal trim....but no I am not going to run out and buy some paint anytime soon.....lol..

The paint that is on the trim seems to be doing just fine.

I bet that open trim makes it easy to change the bulb while in the shower.. Kinda like "multi-tasking"

 

[M. D.]

So. I should use "Rust-oleum" on the open can trim?

They make really nice open faced trims rated for damp locations these days

 

[radiopet]

lol...My first wife thought so......The second one is smarter

(2005 Handbook)
A revision of 410.4(D) clarifies that securely fastened luminaires installed in or on the
ceiling or wall are permitted to be located in the bathtub or shower area. Where they
are subject to shower spray, the luminaires must be listed for a wet location.
Luminaires installed in the tub or shower zone and not subject to shower spray are
required to be listed for use in a damp location. GFCI protection is required only where
specified in the installation instructions for the luminaire.
The intent of 410.4(D) is to keep cord-connected, chain-hanging, or pendant luminaires
and suspended fans out of the reach of an individual standing on a bathtub rim. The list
of prohibited items recognizes that the same risk of electric shock is present for each
one.
This requirement applies to hydromassage
bathtubs, as defined in 680.2, as well as other bathtub types and shower areas. See
680.43 for installation requirements for spas and hot tubs (as defined in 680.2) installed
indoors.

 

[glene77is]

I can see it now, mom says..."I cant see my magazine setting on the pot because the light is burn'd out"....dad, taking a bath, stands up in the bath water to screw in a new bulb. Mom gets rich from life insurance policy.....

I guess it should be changed to GFI protection as well.....

Mule,

Good Point.
Zap!
I got the point!
Zap!
What the Hey!
Zap!

 

[glene77is]

Nonsense.

Could be as you said.
It was not a Code references.
I was thinking about staying in line for any future projects with the HO.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I bet that open trim makes it easy to change the bulb while in the shower.. Kinda like "multi-tasking"

I guess nobody has ever died from this since the NEC allows the install. I install open trims over hydromassage tubs (no shower) all the time. I have yet to kill a customer-- it's bad business. :smile:

 

[Mule]

I guess nobody has ever died from this since the NEC allows the install. I install open trims over hydromassage tubs (no shower) all the time. I have yet to kill a customer-- it's bad business. :smile:

are you pok'n at my humor? I detect a disagreement....if so, not intended.:smile:

 

[electricmanscott]

I guess nobody has ever died from this since the NEC allows the install. I install open trims over hydromassage tubs (no shower) all the time. I have yet to kill a customer-- it's bad business. :smile:

Me too. I also install them over showers with higher ceilings.

 

[M. D.]

Me too. I also install them over showers with higher ceilings.

Higher than what???

 

[iaov]

Well that is the theory of evolution. The strong survive.

Unfortunatly not quite true. The adequate survive!!

 

[electricmanscott]

Higher than what???

Higher than shower spray.

 

[goldstar]

I have this exact installation going on right now. This woman wants a hanging, low voltage fixture over her Jacuzzi tub. I told her it was not code compliant and wouldn't pass inspection. Her answer "Well why do they show them over tubs in magazines "? (You can't make this stuff up !!!)

So I said I'll install a 4" round JB in the ceiling over the tub. If it passes a rough inspection then we're half way there. At the final inspection I'll install a surface ceiling fixture rated for use in a wet location that should pass final inspection. After I'm gone, if you choose to replace that fixture with a hanging LV fixture and potentially kill yourself, well that's your business. Make sure your husband ups your insurance.:grin:

 

[Mule]

I have this exact installation going on right now. This woman wants a hanging, low voltage fixture over her Jacuzzi tub. I told her it was not code compliant and wouldn't pass inspection. Her answer "Well why do they show them over tubs in magazines "? (You can't make this stuff up !!!)

So I said I'll install a 4" round JB in the ceiling over the tub. If it passes a rough inspection then we're half way there. At the final inspection I'll install a surface ceiling fixture rated for use in a wet location that should pass final inspection. After I'm gone, if you choose to replace that fixture with a hanging LV fixture and potentially kill yourself, well that's your business. Make sure your husband ups your insurance.:grin:

I know alot of EC's justify their installations purely by the inspection approval, but to me if you know its wrong, and someone gets hurt or electricuted, you would not be able sleep, nor possibly be able to stand up in court...IMO

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I know alot of EC's justify their installations purely by the inspection approval, but to me if you know its wrong, and someone gets hurt or electricuted, you would not be able sleep, nor possibly be able to stand up in court...IMO

In court you will loose. If you are found to be the person that installed anything knowingly unsafe or illegal then you are a party to the crime. If it resulted in death you could be facing some time behind bars. Personally i would not sleep if i knowed i was the cause of a death. Dealing right now with a friend that is helping his friend wire a hot tub. Neither one know near enough to be doing this. All i can do is warn him that this is serious buisness and if they do it wrong could kill someoone.

 

[infinity]

If Goldstar installs a code compliant installation how can we know what may happen after he walks out the door? If the HO changes the fixture how is that his problem?

 

[goldstar]

Would it be any different if I installed a surface ceiling fixture outside the tub area and after the inspection the HO decides to remove the fixture I installed and re-install a fixture over the tub with a swag chain and canopy ? If I install a code compliant GFI receptacle serving the vanity sink area and the HO decides to plug in a radio with an extension cord and leave it on the deck outside the Jacuzzi tub and if the radio falls in the tub while it's filled with water and occupied am I still liable ?

IMHO, my conscience is clear by installing the proper damp or wet location fixture over the tub area. I can't be my brothers keeper. If the HO wants to commit a code violation and put him/herself in danger after I get inspected then be my guest. I'll get plenty of sleep.:grin:

 

[Mule]

Would it be any different if I installed a surface ceiling fixture outside the tub area and after the inspection the HO decides to remove the fixture I installed and re-install a fixture over the tub with a swag chain and canopy ? If I install a code compliant GFI receptacle serving the vanity sink area and the HO decides to plug in a radio with an extension cord and leave it on the deck outside the Jacuzzi tub and if the radio falls in the tub while it's filled with water and occupied am I still liable ?

IMHO, my conscience is clear by installing the proper damp or wet location fixture over the tub area. I can't be my brothers keeper. If the HO wants to commit a code violation and put him/herself in danger after I get inspected then be my guest. I'll get plenty of sleep.:grin:

I personaly hear what your saying, but the only problem is that you suggested to the HO that they change out the fxtr after you leave. That, would sink you in court IMO

 

[goldstar]

Actually Mule I never suggested that she make the change. What I said was :

After I'm gone, if you choose to replace that fixture with a hanging LV fixture and potentially kill yourself, well that's your business.

It was her idea all along and she was making the change whether I suggested it or not.