I never heard this before

[Ponchik]

An appliance installer told me "For a microwave circuit I just tap into the range circuit behind the stove and install one of these View attachment 12341 where the microwave hood will plug into" And of course first thing out of my

mouth was "no you can not tap into the range circuit with 12 awg wires"

The only code section that I was able to give him was the Tap rules. Then again I was thinking about it and the 12 awg is protected with a 15 amp fuse, however, the ground fault protection is 40 Amps.

But I still could not say it a unsafe install based on XXX code section.

Any comments please.

 

[iwire]

An appliance installer told me "For a microwave circuit I just tap into the range circuit behind the stove and install one of these View attachment 12341 where the microwave hood will plug into" And of course first thing out of my

mouth was "no you can not tap into the range circuit with 12 awg wires"

The only code section that I was able to give him was the Tap rules. Then again I was thinking about it and the 12 awg is protected with a 15 amp fuse, however, the ground fault protection is 40 Amps.

But I still could not say it a unsafe install based on XXX code section.

Any comments please.

There are rules for branch circuit taps and this does not fit.

For a range circuit see 210.19(A)(3) exception 1.

In my opinion a microwave is not a 'wall mounted oven' but I guess an inspector could see it otherwise.

 

[Ponchik]

There are rules for branch circuit taps and this does not fit.

For a range circuit see 210.19(A)(3) exception 1.

In my opinion a microwave is not a 'wall mounted oven' but I guess an inspector could see it otherwise.

I see the 210.19(A)(3) exc:1 may apply if the microwave is considered an oven. In this case if the installer added the pictured receptacle with the fuse, then I really can not red tag his install. Unless of course I don't see the microwave as an oven.

 

[iwire]

I see the 210.19(A)(3) exc:1 may apply if the microwave is considered an oven. In this case if the installer added the pictured receptacle with the fuse, then I really can not red tag his install. Unless of course I don't see the microwave as an oven.

Well, if you do tap the range branch circuit with a fuse I guess it becomes a feeder and at that point wouldn't you have to do load calculations to make sure the newly created feeder is in NEC compliance?

 

[Esthy]

What is the name of this receptacle/fuse combination? Maybe it should be call "Tucson combo" as it is extensively use in that area for tapping circuits. Inspectors never questioned those, at least in the past.

Been new here with only 300, I congratulate iwire for his 50K+ post, you are a good asset to this forum. Are you with the most posts?

 

[iwire]

I congratulate iwire for his 50K+ post,

It is disturbing evidence of my lack of real life and inability to shut up. hmy:

 

[Esthy]

No, this is your hobby, you enjoy it and enjoy helping others. Any of those days I will have the pleasure of meeting you in person. In the way you help in this forum demonstrate that you are a fine man, a man of a character. God bless you.

 

[480sparky]

What is the name of this receptacle/fuse combination?...

FRU for Fuse Receptacle Unit.

A fuse and switch would be an FSU.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

One of the washer/ Dryer manufacturer used to make a setup where you plug a device similar to what is shown into a 4 wire dryer receptacle and that would have a breaker or fuses and a 120v receptacle for the washer

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The unit I am talking about is similar to this built in setup on this dryer. The receptacle to the right was for a 240V washer. I think this was a Bosch unit

 

[zbang]

FRU for Fuse Receptacle Unit. A fuse and switch would be an FSU.

Great, yet more TLAs (Three Letter Acronym).

 

[Sierrasparky]

All this is fine, How do you address that most if not ALL built in Micros require a Dedicated Branch Circuit.
Then is this tap from a 50 amp or a 40 amp branch circuit.

 

[iwire]

All this is fine, How do you address that most if not ALL built in Micros require a Dedicated Branch Circuit.
Then is this tap from a 50 amp or a 40 amp branch circuit.

If you tap the range branch circuit it becomes a feeder and the new circuit created would be a dedicated branch circuit.

I still think load calculations would prevent this unless the range circuit was oversized to begin with.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree and then where would you put the fuse? Behind the stove?

 

[jxofaltrds]

An appliance installer told me "For a microwave circuit I just tap into the range circuit behind the stove and install one of these View attachment 12341 where the microwave hood will plug into" And of course first thing out of my

mouth was "no you can not tap into the range circuit with 12 awg wires"

The only code section that I was able to give him was the Tap rules. Then again I was thinking about it and the 12 awg is protected with a 15 amp fuse, however, the ground fault protection is 40 Amps.

But I still could not say it a unsafe install based on XXX code section.

Any comments please.

Another thought what 'if' 210.8(A)(7)?

 

[GoldDigger]

If you tap the range branch circuit it becomes a feeder and the new circuit created would be a dedicated branch circuit.

I still think load calculations would prevent this unless the range circuit was oversized to begin with.

Slightly interesting semantic issue here:
Before you make the tap, the conductor is not a feeder, but after you make the tap it is. So is it a feeder tap?

 

[electrofelon]

Slightly interesting semantic issue here:
Before you make the tap, the conductor is not a feeder, but after you make the tap it is. So is it a feeder tap?

Also are we sure it's a feeder? If the range doesn't have an ocpd it seems the feeder is supplying the range which is a paradox and the universe ends, or does the feeder split into two branch circuits at the tap?

 

[Ponchik]

I agree and then where would you put the fuse? Behind the stove?

The appliance installer said he puts it in the cabinet above the microwave.

 

[Ponchik]

Another thought what 'if' 210.8(A)(7)?

Why would that apply?

 

[GoldDigger]

Also are we sure it's a feeder? If the range doesn't have an ocpd it seems the feeder is supplying the range which is a paradox and the universe ends, or does the feeder split into two branch circuits at the tap?

This has come up in the forum before and has pretty well been discussed to death.
IMO there is nothing in either the NEC definitions or the rules that prevents s single run of conductor from being part of a feeder and part of a branch at the same time.
In that case both feeder rules and branch rules would apply to those wires and the more restrictive would apply.