Little Romex Question

[George Stolz]

That's up to 4-14/3 or 4-12/3 cables in one hole with the caulking.

Depending on what those cables are doing. If one of your 14/3's is a pair of switchlegs to, say, a ceiling fan, then look out.

 

[infinity]

Depending on what those cables are doing. If one of your 14/3's is a pair of switchlegs to, say, a ceiling fan, then look out.

Yup that's why I said up to. So for dwelling homeruns or 3-way switches you're good to go.

 

[George Stolz]

Yup that's why I said up to. So for dwelling homeruns or 3-way switches you're good to go.

You know my buttons too well, don't you? Which of the travelers is not a CCC?

 

[infinity]

You know my buttons too well, don't you? Which of the travelers is not a CCC?

Yeah, we can argue all day about the three-ways.

But not about the homeruns.

 

[jetlag]

He apparently was not informed about the specifics of the code. If you had less than 9 CCC's in a bundle, or in an insulated hole, then you were still compliant after derating.

Im still a little confused about the difference in the derating for the chaulked and non chaulked holes is it that the non chaulked are not considered bundled thru drilled holes because it has to be a bundle 24 " long or more.

 

[kwired]

Im still a little confused about the difference in the derating for the chaulked and non chaulked holes is it that the non chaulked are not considered bundled thru drilled holes because it has to be a bundle 24 " long or more.

Normally you do not have to derate for conductors nippled or bundled 24 inches or less. This is no longer true for NM cables through a hole that is sealed. 334.80 says this.

 

[jetlag]

thanks kwired

thanks kwired

Normally you do not have to derate for conductors nippled or bundled 24 inches or less. This is no longer true for NM cables through a hole that is sealed. 334.80 says this.

It is all clear now and the Ahj is just dead wrong telling me I can only put two cables in a fire chaulked hole .

 

[ike5547]

CONSTRUCTION
Southwire's Romex SIMpull ? Type NM-B cable is manufactured as 2, 3, or 4 conductor cable, with a ground wire. Copper
conductors are annealed (soft) copper. Stranded conductors are compressed stranded. Conductor insulation is 90?C-rated
polyvinyl chloride (PVC), nylon jacketed. Southwire's SIMpull ? Designed for Easier Pulling, Resulting in Easier installation.
The cable jacket is color-coded for quick size identification; White - 14 AWG, Yellow - 12 AWG, Orange - 10 AWG, and Black -
8 AWG and 6 AWG.


The above is from the product specification from Southwire as it relates to their "romex".

110.14(C) - Temperature Limitations. The temperature rating associated with the ampacity of a conductor shall be selected and coordinated so as not to exceed the lowest temperature rating of any connected termination, conductor, or device. Conductors with temperature ratings higher than specified for terminations shall be permitted to be used for ampacity adjustment, correction, or both.

Pete

I learned somewhere (or maybe I was misinformed) that the "B" in NM-B designates 90c.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It is all clear now and the Ahj is just dead wrong telling me I can only put two cables in a fire chaulked hole .

We had an inspector start that once but I quickly called him up and showed him where he was incorrect. It is a bit confusing- yes you derate after 2 cables but it doesn't affect us till there are 5- 2 wire cables.

 

[WorkSafe]

I learned somewhere (or maybe I was misinformed) that the "B" in NM-B designates 90c.

Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable. The "B" denotes that individual conductor insulation is rated 90?C; however, ampacity is limited to that for a 60?C conductor (see NEC Section 336-26, 1999 edition). Thermoplastic (PVC) conductor insulation-nylon jacketed, with overall PVC cable jacket.

http://www.southwire.com/support/BldgWaCDesig.htm

 

[ike5547]

however, ampacity is limited to that for a 60?C conductor (see NEC Section 336-26, 1999 edition). Thermoplastic (PVC) conductor insulation-nylon jacketed, with overall PVC cable jacket.

Yes. This has already been established in the thread.

 

[WorkSafe]

Yes. This has already been established in the thread.

Yes, I know.... I was just copy/pasting from the link and it also sounded like you were unsure if what you were told was true.

 

[ike5547]

Yes, I know.... I was just copy/pasting from the link...

Heh. They even but the "B" in quotes like I did. I guess that and not clicking the link threw me off.

Thanks.

 

[wiredoc]

bundling

bundling

Bundling is more than 3 cables in a hole,bored or punched,a tie wrap,a king staple,a romex connector,a conduit,etc.

 

[infinity]

Bundling is more than 3 cables in a hole,bored or punched,a tie wrap,a king staple,a romex connector,a conduit,etc.

Not everything in that the list is the same. For conduit or a tie wrap derating only applies after you exceed 24". For a hole there is no derating unless that hole is fire or draft stopped.

 

[acrwc10]

Not everything in that the list is the same. For conduit or a tie wrap derating only applies after you exceed 24". For a hole there is no derating unless that hole is fire or draft stopped.[/QUOTE]

I always felt there is a point at which the hole is small enough and the conductors big enough that any kind of caulking, fire or draft, was not going to even get in the hole. So what differance is there between a caulked hole and a "over stuffed" hole, as far as derating.

 

[infinity]

So what difference is there between a caulked hole and a "over stuffed" hole, as far as derating.

The difference is NEC says that a caulked hole must have it's cables derated. A 1" hole with ten cables stuffed in does not.

 

[acrwc10]

The difference is NEC says that a caulked hole must have it's cables derated. A 1" hole with ten cables stuffed in does not.

I disagree I think at 10 you may need to derate just because of the number of ccc's ( esecially if they are 14-3s with the whites used as switch legs )

 

[infinity]

I disagree I think at 10 you may need to derate just because of the number of ccc's ( esecially if they are 14-3s with the whites used as switch legs )

OK, give me a code section that would require derating 10 cables in a single hole without caulk?

 

[glene77is]

... NM contains thw conductors ...

Jet,
Where is the conductor stamped with 'THW' ?

IMO, the conductors are THHN, but it is not so marked.
The insulation appears as thin as THHN, without nylon cover,
but, is not identified.
The manufacturer identifies the cable assembly
by stamping the ID info on the outer jacket.
Comments welcome