MC as travellers

[iwire]

I think an easer answer is to simply use boxes with built in MC connectors (they keep the cables separate) or use a single MC connector for the switch leg.

 

[iwire]

Jim suggested keeping it to specific employees

I think this is an excellent solution. Can this be done?

Our SOP is to always wire like the same people will not be back. There is no way on a 10 story condo building we would expect the same people to always be on that job.

There will be months of trim out on a job like that.

 

[peter d]

George, those are some excellent posts you have put up here. Too bad I haven't bothered to read them.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim suggested keeping it to specific employees



Our SOP is to always wire like the same people will not be back. There is no way on a 10 story condo building we would expect the same people to always be on that job.

There will be months of trim out on a job like that.

Thats true but also why there are problems like this.A system i used on some condos was put only one man in each unit to trim.Log him into the unit with his name and unit number.This helps to find out who needs a raise and who needs to go.Do same on rough and your problems will get solved.When you allow 4 or 5 guys in one unit its hard to know who the slacker is.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

If double barrels are causing the problem then use 2 singles ,they are cheaper anyways than doubles and no confushion.

 

[iwire]

All I can say Jim is it works for us, we have printed sheets that show how each box type is to be roughed.

What colors to use, which KOs to use with the feeds and which to use for switch legs. All the splicing is done at cut in so there should really be no issue at trim out.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

i agree splicing should be done on rough but have seen the mix up on blacks when in a double.On trim there should be only the wires needed for device and hopefully they where folded nice so easy to pull them out.All of this goes to h when you use piece workers.

 

[allenwayne]

All I can say Jim is it works for us, we have printed sheets that show how each box type is to be roughed.

What colors to use, which KOs to use with the feeds and which to use for switch legs. All the splicing is done at cut in so there should really be no issue at trim out.

Bob I agree and tried this on a 450 unit complex.A,B,C apts were to be wired like this as per print.60% piece workers.One guy did 4 units a day.Over $650.00 for a hard days work. but he wired them his way.Luckily they worked like all his other work flawlessly.But we had guys that followed the FOOLPROOF print and missed jumpers HR`s etc.We tried the incentive progran but that was a disaster since,since they got the incentive bonus on rough and were gone come trim out they were down the road roughing someone elses job.
The horror story I had was a really good one.The company I was working for was behind in trim outs.One of the piece trim guys said he knew a crew that would come and trim 15 homes on a weekend.They showed up and said they would do 15 homes in 2 days ,but wanted paid monday morning.So the boss agreed,come monday sure enough 15 homes done.They got there check and off they went.Wow what a good thing huh.NOT !!!!!They trimmed out 15 homes but what we didn`t know was that they didn`t hook up the first wire to anything.Panels,disc.`s switches ,receps.fixtures.......We didn`t find out till the meter was set and nothing worked !!!See here we get our meters after the final no power on at all.They got around $4,000.00 and it took countless hourly wage guys time to undo and re do what they had done.
Now this is 100 % true I was there and it was my area so I got the fukk brunt of it.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Bob I agree and tried this on a 450 unit complex.A,B,C apts were to be wired like this as per print.60% piece workers.One guy did 4 units a day.Over $650.00 for a hard days work. but he wired them his way.Luckily they worked like all his other work flawlessly.But we had guys that followed the FOOLPROOF print and missed jumpers HR`s etc.We tried the incentive progran but that was a disaster since,since they got the incentive bonus on rough and were gone come trim out they were down the road roughing someone elses job.
The horror story I had was a really good one.The company I was working for was behind in trim outs.One of the piece trim guys said he knew a crew that would come and trim 15 homes on a weekend.They showed up and said they would do 15 homes in 2 days ,but wanted paid monday morning.So the boss agreed,come monday sure enough 15 homes done.They got there check and off they went.Wow what a good thing huh.NOT !!!!!They trimmed out 15 homes but what we didn`t know was that they didn`t hook up the first wire to anything.Panels,disc.`s switches ,receps.fixtures.......We didn`t find out till the meter was set and nothing worked !!!See here we get our meters after the final no power on at all.They got around $4,000.00 and it took countless hourly wage guys time to undo and re do what they had done.
Now this is 100 % true I was there and it was my area so I got the fukk brunt of it.

Thats funny but sure your boss wasnt laughing.Now had they been offered the same pay for the 2 days you might have actually gained something.This is what you get from piece workers.Boss hopes to win by paying less and workers only wanted money,the two just dont mix.Fast,cheap,quality,you cant get all 3 so pick 2 and be happy with 1.

 

[allenwayne]

Jim as far as paying less that`s not true.The jobs are bid with a projected # of hours to complete the task be it rough or trim and they use a set hourly rate per man hour.The piece pay rate that is paid is in line with the hourly figure multiplying # of man houirs X X amount of $$$ / hr.The hourly guys for the most part will milk a job as far as they can push.But the piece guys bust them out.This was a very bad situation funny as heck but bad .

Don`t get me wrong , I know alot of quaility piece guys both rough and trim.They get in and out as fast as I have ever seen.I know several that work the same area day after day and make a pile of money.

They know the models they are doing and can do them in thier sleep.I`ve seen a 2 man hourly guy take 2 days to do a 1948 sq. ft. home and right next door a 1 man piece crew gets at the job at 6 am and are starting another one by 12:30 pm.Now on the other side of the fence I know other piece crews that are almost as fast but the work s#%@s.

There are 3 piece pay rates A,B, and C. The rate they get depends upon speed ,length of time with company and the call back rate they get.There are back charges for missing items on addendums jumpers missed so on and so forth.Some of the better residential piece guys are taking down $60 to 75K / year.For a Florida electrician to make that kind of money hourly is unheard of.I did apt. piece in Orlando in the mid 80`s and was doing $1000 + / week. So I know what it is like to do piece.It burns you out but the $ makes up for it.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Thats good pay unless they are working 12 hour days 6 days a week.At some point they would be better off with hourly plus the 1 1/2.I took home that kind of money for one week and said never again.Money isnt everything,not giving anyone my life.

 

[allenwayne]

Jim these guys go home the same as they leave it.In one piece I can`t do it but they have found the formula to do it.They know the models don`t use a print at all lay out with just boxes , all they need is the extras to change gang boxes and where the fans or recessed cans go ,tv`s etc.They don`t box a ceiling until it is being wired 1 trip up a ladder to start and finish .I watched a guy who lives near you in Land of Lakes cut in a 4 gang.Nothing but flying sheathing and a blur.In 2 min the box cut in and off to finish the next task.If he gets $1100 / week he gets mad and gripes thats take home pay I want you to know.This is the truth a fact I`ve seen time and time again.He gets A pay plus if it calls for a split service ,the pay isn`t enough so he roughs the panel and meter and disc. for SER and goes on and service does it.A prima donna yes ,a quality electrician yes.But when you see his name on paper work as doing the rough you don`t have to worry when hot checking 99.9% of the time its A+.Now back to the other side of the fence there are C pay guys when you see there name you cring.3 way switched recep in the same box as a c/f(wired in 3 wire as we do always.You can rest assured that the travellers and the c/f have been switched up when cut in.I use my fluke to determine first if that is what they did.15 volts of what i`ll call for lack of a better term GHOST VOLTAGE 3 way sw recep off when turned on 37 to 39.I open the gang box find the 3 way and the c/f swap them out and problem solved.The pace is to fast to sit and can`t do CSI work i know this works and has for along time.If anyone can tell me why I`ll be glad to learn.All I know is this is what I find I remedy it this simple way and go on.
For the record i prefer a quality hourly guy over the piece guy.But as far as a bussiness goes the bottom line tells the tale.

 

[alexstanaj]

Some guys are good installers and some are good electricians, you have to chose the right guy for 3 way and 4 way switches, and really depends from you what type of reputation you wanna leave.....