micro wave tap 210.19

[Cavie]

Pretty much true if they are just microwave ovens. But there are crossovers using multiple cooking technologies not always plug connected... but I will note they are not necessarily called microwave ovens. They are typically called wall ovens even though they utilize microwave cooking technology.

Probably a few in this pack ...

http://products.geappliances.com/Ap...ave_Ovens&Filters=BRAND!GE$20Profile$20Series

I'm not going to do an exhaustive search trying to find one that is specifically called a microwave oven.

As I so noted in my earlier post, let's focus on ones that are hardwired, not 15/20A plug connected... to give a proper reply to the OP.

I just randomly picked 3 units from the above link. ALL units require separate circuits of the voltage and amps listed. 15A and 20A cord connected. 30A direct connection. All on separate 15, 20 or 30 circuits. Kinda answers all the questions in this post doesn't it. Personally, I think a micro should be listed as a cooking appliance. That's is what it does isn't it?? cook food? walks, quacks etc???

 

[Smart $]

I just randomly picked 3 units from the above link. ALL units require separate circuits of the voltage and amps listed. 15A and 20A cord connected. 30A direct connection. All on separate 15, 20 or 30 circuits. Kinda answers all the questions in this post doesn't it. Personally, I think a micro should be listed as a cooking appliance. That's is what it does isn't it?? cook food? walks, quacks etc???

I picked the first...

ELECTRICAL REQUIREMENTS

Single Speedcook Installation

Product rating is 120/208 or 120/240 volt, 60 Hz, 30 amps. This product must be connected to a supply circuit of the proper voltage and frequency and protected by a time delay fuse or circuit breaker Power should be supplied from a separate, dedicated 30-ampere branch circuit. Wire size must conform to the requirements of the National Electrical Code or the prevailing local code.

Combined Speedcook and Wall Oven Installation

When installed in combination with a GE/Monogram single wall oven, use separate electrical junction boxes Refer to single oven installation instructions for electrical requirements of that product These connections must be made by a qualified electrician. All electrical connections must meet National Electrical Code or prevailing local codes.

Combined Speedcook and Warming Drawer Installation

When installing the Speedcook oven over a GE or Monogram electric warming drawer, a separate 120V, 60Hz, properly grounded receptacle must be installed See instructions packed with the warming drawer.

 

[iwire]

I picked the first...

A Combined Speedcook and Wall Oven is not the type of unit the OP asked about is it?

I have no idea why you are insistent on changing the focus of this thread but knock yourself out, I am sure there is a reason.

 

[kwired]

I just randomly picked 3 units from the above link. ALL units require separate circuits of the voltage and amps listed. 15A and 20A cord connected. 30A direct connection. All on separate 15, 20 or 30 circuits. Kinda answers all the questions in this post doesn't it. Personally, I think a micro should be listed as a cooking appliance. That's is what it does isn't it?? cook food? walks, quacks etc???

I agree with the fact that it maybe is a cooking appliance, but it still has a 5-15 or 5-20 cord cap. We can call many other countertop appliances with same cord cap cooking appliances, but I really don't believe you would support tapping 5-15 wall receptacles serving the countertop from a 50 amp circuit.

If the microwave is designed similar to a range or cooktop or wall oven so that it can be direct wired or connected to a 50 amp cordset then I would agree it is in same classification as those appliances for the purpose of applying this issue.

 

[renosteinke]

I think we've missed the forest for the trees ...

"Tap" rules apply to where smaller conductors are used - AND there is overcurrent protection at the end of the 'tap.' Tap rules don't allow a smaller wire to be completely unprotected; they just let you place the protection at the 'far end.'

So, it comes down to vocabulary.

You would run a 50-A "feeder" to the point where you take off wires to the 20-A 120-V circuit. There the feeder would branch, with one part being the 'branch circuit' for the range, and the tap ending in an appropriately fused receptacle.

It's the fuse at the receptacle everyone is overlooking. With overcurrent protection at the receptacle, it is, by definition, an 'individual branch circuit' (AKA: "dedicated" or "separate").

Would you need additional overcurrent protection on the range part of the circuit? I don't THINK so. I admit, this does make the circuit something of a feeder / branch circuit hybrid.

 

[iwire]

I think we've missed the forest for the trees ...

"Tap" rules apply to where smaller conductors are used - AND there is overcurrent protection at the end of the 'tap.' Tap rules don't allow a smaller wire to be completely unprotected; they just let you place the protection at the 'far end.'

So, it comes down to vocabulary.

You would run a 50-A "feeder" to the point where you take off wires to the 20-A 120-V circuit. There the feeder would branch, with one part being the 'branch circuit' for the range, and the tap ending in an appropriately fused receptacle.

It's the fuse at the receptacle everyone is overlooking. With overcurrent protection at the receptacle, it is, by definition, an 'individual branch circuit' (AKA: "dedicated" or "separate").

Would you need additional overcurrent protection on the range part of the circuit? I don't THINK so. I admit, this does make the circuit something of a feeder / branch circuit hybrid.

Reno, we are seeing things fine, You must have missed that we have been talking about a branch circuit tap. Yes a tap, as allowed by exception 1 to 210.19(A)(3).

II. Branch-Circuit Ratings

210.19 Conductors ? Minimum Ampacity and Size.

(A) Branch Circuits Not More Than 600 Volts.

(3) Household Ranges and Cooking Appliances. Branch-circuit conductors supplying household ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, and other household cooking appliances shall have an ampacity not less than the rating of the branch circuit and not less than the maximum load to be served. For ranges of 83⁄4 kW or more rating, the minimum branch-circuit rating shall be 40 amperes.

Exception No. 1: Conductors tapped from a 50-ampere branch circuit supplying electric ranges, wall-mounted electric ovens, and counter-mounted electric cooking units shall have an ampacity of not less than 20 amperes and shall be suffıcient for the load to be served. These tap conductors include any conductors that are a part of the leads supplied with the appliance that are smaller than the branch-circuit conductors. The taps shall not be longer than necessary for servicing the appliance.

It is my opinion that the exception only applies to hardwired equipment.

 

[Smart $]

A Combined Speedcook and Wall Oven is not the type of unit the OP asked about is it?

I have no idea why you are insistent on changing the focus of this thread but knock yourself out, I am sure there is a reason.

I read statements made here in the same manner which I read the Code... which is to make no assumptions! In some cases I may have to make assumptions to give any meaningful response... and I attempt to make it known that I did make the assumption(s).

To be clear, the OP did not state the specifics which you seem to be implying...

how long can the tap from a 50 amp range circuit be for a 20amp circuit for a microwave? I know this has to have been discussed before but I can't find it.

It does not say a typical countertop, cord-and-plug-connected microwave. It does say a 20A circuit for a microwave. The typical microwave you refer to has a 15A cord and plug, and while it can be connected to a 20A circuit, it can also be connected to a 15A... which of course is also not stated.

Additionally, it says a 50A range circuit. It does not say a circuit which just happens to have a range connected to it. The Combined Speedcook (which could be likened to a microwave on steroids) and Wall Oven could very easily be a combination that is being installed on (i.e. tapped to) the range circuit, especially in a remodel.

It is my opinion that the exception only applies to hardwired equipment.

FWIW, I agree with you... not because of the tap requirements though, but rather because of receptacle requirements.

 

[david luchini]

I think we've missed the forest for the trees ...

"Tap" rules apply to where smaller conductors are used - AND there is overcurrent protection at the end of the 'tap.' Tap rules don't allow a smaller wire to be completely unprotected; they just let you place the protection at the 'far end.'

That is not entirely correct. Generally, the rules for Feeder Taps require overcurrent protection at the end of the tap (though for Taps supplying a transformer, the tap conductors terminate the primary of the transformer rather than at an OCPD.) However, the tap rules for branch circuit in 210.19(A)(3) ex 1, and 210.19(A)(4) ex 1 say NOTHING about having overcurrent protection at the end of the tap.

So, it comes down to vocabulary.

You would run a 50-A "feeder" to the point where you take off wires to the 20-A 120-V circuit. There the feeder would branch, with one part being the 'branch circuit' for the range, and the tap ending in an appropriately fused receptacle.

It's the fuse at the receptacle everyone is overlooking. With overcurrent protection at the receptacle, it is, by definition, an 'individual branch circuit' (AKA: "dedicated" or "separate").

Would you need additional overcurrent protection on the range part of the circuit? I don't THINK so. I admit, this does make the circuit something of a feeder / branch circuit hybrid.

The problem with this is that, by definition, the 50A circuit is not a "feeder," it is a branch circuit...it is the circuit conductors between the final OCPD and the outlet for the range. The tap from that circuit, must therefore meet the branch-circuit tap rules. IF you added additional OCPD at the range outlet, you would turn the 50A circuit into a feeder, then you could tap and terminate at a 20A ocpd for the receptacle per the feeder tap rules.