Modifing ceiling grid to install light fixtures

[Ibbreezn]

I am a Master Electrician with 20+ years in the trade, 2 weeks ago I was terminated by my employer becaused I refused to cut 3/8" off the mains and t-bars of a concealed grid suspended ceiling to facilatate the installation of 28 2x4 fluorescent light fixtures. We did not have any type of approval from the ceiling grid manufacturer. My former boss wanted me to use tin snips and duck bill pliers to accomplish this.
#1. I felt that this was truly "scab Work"
#2. I had serious concerns about modifying the grid integrity.
#3. NEC Art. 110.12
#4. U.L rating of the grid.
#5. No prior approval from the grid manufacturer.
The reason that the new fixtures didn't fit was the fact that the grid was considerable wider than standard grid.
I would appreciate any input regarding this.
Thanks, Rick

 

[infinity]

Sorry to hear about your job loss. Basically you decided to take a stand and now you're unemployed. It's a tough call. Many guys would just do what they're told since it's not their license that they're working under. Tough call either way.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I am a Master Electrician with 20+ years in the trade, 2 weeks ago I was terminated by my employer becaused I refused to cut 3/8" off the mains and t-bars of a concealed grid suspended ceiling to facilatate the installation of 28 2x4 fluorescent light fixtures. We did not have any type of approval from the ceiling grid manufacturer. My former boss wanted me to use tin snips and duck bill pliers to accomplish this.
#1. I felt that this was truly "scab Work"
#2. I had serious concerns about modifying the grid integrity.
#3. NEC Art. 110.12
#4. U.L rating of the grid.
#5. No prior approval from the grid manufacturer.
The reason that the new fixtures didn't fit was the fact that the grid was considerable wider than standard grid.
I would appreciate any input regarding this.
Thanks, Rick

You get paid by the hour right?

The things you listed cannot be pinned on you.
Call your boss and apologize.
Tell him you would have rather let the ceing guys do it to look omre professional. But you now see his side of it.
Insubordination, is insubordination, no matter what you're putting your foot down for.

Welcome to the forum

 

[mcelweec@gmail.com]

i would have fired you too,i have enough guys trying to tell me what their job description is.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I am a Master Electrician with 20+ years in the trade, 2 weeks ago I was terminated by my employer becaused I refused to cut 3/8" off the mains and t-bars of a concealed grid suspended ceiling to facilatate the installation of 28 2x4 fluorescent light fixtures. We did not have any type of approval from the ceiling grid manufacturer. My former boss wanted me to use tin snips and duck bill pliers to accomplish this.
#1. I felt that this was truly "scab Work"
#2. I had serious concerns about modifying the grid integrity.
#3. NEC Art. 110.12
#4. U.L rating of the grid.
#5. No prior approval from the grid manufacturer.
The reason that the new fixtures didn't fit was the fact that the grid was considerable wider than standard grid.
I would appreciate any input regarding this.
Thanks, Rick

Modifying any equipment to some extent does require something to approve of it,either via instructions or a call/email to the manufacturer for their blessing.
The manufacturers generally are aware of the size of the standard fixtures. With the grid not sized for fixtures, it may be so that it is not designed for lay-in type fixtures.
Hence, a call to the manufacturer for clarification.

28 fixtures on a ceiling grid that may not be listed for lay-in fixtures, and then modifying the grid without prior knowledge if the grid is not structurely designed for it, is simply not a good idea.

 

[kwired]

If this was to be done just so the so called clips on the fixture would fit over the grid I would have put screws through the fixture into the grid to secure the fixture. Have done this before on some older grid that the fixture clips would not fit.

 

[electricmanscott]

i would have fired you too,i have enough guys trying to tell me what their job description is.

Really? Must be great working for you. :roll:

Can you tell me where in the job description I could find the entry for "hack" ?

 

[ultramegabob]

I am having a hard time picturing what they wanted you to do, were you supposed to cut the T-grid to widen the opening? were your cuts going to be seen once the tiles were installed?

 

[electricmanscott]

You get paid by the hour right?

The things you listed cannot be pinned on you.
Call your boss and apologize.
Tell him you would have rather let the ceing guys do it to look omre professional. But you now see his side of it.
Insubordination, is insubordination, no matter what you're putting your foot down for.

Welcome to the forum

This is just ridiculous. If the ceiling falls down and somebody is killed you can bet your ass this will be pinned on YOU. Just because somebody is an employee does not give the employer a right to make them do whatever they see fit.

I don't know where you guys get the idea that just because it is somebody elses name on the company license you have no liability for your work. For a bunch of people who regularly argue the legal aspects of the code and like to hide behind 110.3 B all the time this sure doesn't make alot of sense.

 

[iwire]

I am surprised that you feel that way Scott, I am more of the 'do what you're told or find another place to work' kind of guy.

If the OP does not want to work like that I can certainly respect that but part of standing up for what you feel is right is accepting the consequences of that decision. Sometime the consequences suck, the one electrical company I was fired from was for standing up and along with being fired on the spot I was left standing with my tools on a street in downtown Boston, took me about 5 hrs to get home. :roll:

 

[electricmanscott]

I am surprised that you feel that way Scott, I am more of the 'do what you're told or find another place to work' kind of guy.

If the OP does not want to work like that I can certainly respect that but part of standing up for what you feel is right is accepting the consequences of that decision. Sometime the consequences suck, the one electrical company I was fired from was for standing up and along with being fired on the spot I was left standing with my tools on a street in downtown Boston, took me about 5 hrs to get home. :roll:

I tend to be a do what your told guy but you have to have a limit. In the ops case the line was crossed in my view. The boss was asking him to do something that I think most people would agree is just not a smart thing to do. But I also agree with accepting the consequences for whichever way you decide to go. There are people who will just go with the flow and never make any bones about anything and then there are people like....me. If I think it's wrong I am not going to do it. It's like dealing with inspectors. Some guys will do whatever the inspector says, some will do what is actually required.

I worked for a guy who had the I'm the boss you do whatever I say attitude and was never shy about it. Not a good way to promote company harmony. Without going into details, his attitude cost him in many ways that he will never know.

 

[hot wire]

Sounds like you did the right thing.Go talk to a lawyer fired for that cause you have a case. 1st of all your not a ceiling man u dont go cutting grid mains for a fixture.sound like there a lot of yes men in the trade ..

 

[iwire]

Sounds like you did the right thing.Go talk to a lawyer fired for that cause you have a case.

Yeah he is such a victim, he is entitled for a large compensation.

How about just finding a better place to work for?

 

[electricmanscott]

Yeah he is such a victim, he is entitled for a large compensation.

How about just finding a better place to work for?

Now we agree.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Sounds like you did the right thing.Go talk to a lawyer fired for that cause you have a case.

In the absence of a contract between the employer and the employee, it is not likely that there is a legal case here. Most states have "employment at will" which means you can be terminated without cause at any time. This is true in both "right to work" states and states that do not have "right to work" laws.

 

[kwired]

Yeah he is such a victim, he is entitled for a large compensation.

How about just finding a better place to work for?

my feelings on some of these situations is other than a large compensation (if that is a possibility) or just revenge what is the motivation for legal action.

If you are fired for what is more of a personal reason and the court says they must give you your job back would you want to work there any way. I may want the job back for the short term but would certainly be looking for something else.

 

[nakulak]

 

[RICK NAPIER]

I have come across similar situations as an inspector. Generally the mechanic will install it the way his boss insists but will call me or speak to me on the job site to be sure that am aware of the violation. I see the violation and fail it keeping the confidentiality of the worker. I have also done this for electrical contractors when they were pressured into work that was not compliant by the builder or owner.

 

[mcelweec@gmail.com]

Scott what i can see are 5 excuses but no solutions.

 

[electricmanscott]

Scott what i can see are 5 excuses but no solutions.

I don't know that I would call them excuses. I might call some of them legitimate reasons however.

I would think a problem like this would best be solved by that person that spec'd the lights and the ceiling which was obviously a screw up.

But hey why should the moron take the blame, let's just fire the guy with the integrity. :roll: