Number of openings, number of circuits

[bjp_ne_elec]

Getting ready to do my first new house, and obviously, I'm a bit nervous.

The house is a two-story colonial, with 200A service, 3 bedrooms (all on 2nd floor), attached 2-stall garage, 2-1/2 baths with Living Room and Family Room downstairs. Basement has a walkout, and there is a slider off the dining area in the kitchen.

Be interested in what this house would generally translate to "number of openings" - as I know some guys bid by the sq. ft. - others by the opening. Also like to hear the number of circuits that you'd run, and a strategy of how you lay the circuits out in a typical home like this.

Outside of lights and general receptacles, there's the Dishwasher circuit, the Fridge, the Microwave, 30A/220V Water Heater, Furnace, Washer, and Dryer.

Thanks,

Brett

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Getting ready to do my first new house, and obviously, I'm a bit nervous.

The house is a two-story colonial, with 200A service, 3 bedrooms (all on 2nd floor), attached 2-stall garage, 2-1/2 baths with Living Room and Family Room downstairs. Basement has a walkout, and there is a slider off the dining area in the kitchen.

Be interested in what this house would generally translate to "number of openings" - as I know some guys bid by the sq. ft. - others by the opening. Also like to hear the number of circuits that you'd run, and a strategy of how you lay the circuits out in a typical home like this.

Outside of lights and general receptacles, there's the Dishwasher circuit, the Fridge, the Microwave, 30A/220V Water Heater, Furnace, Washer, and Dryer.

Thanks,

Brett

How many sq.ft???

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Sorry - 2000 sq ft - not including attached garage.

Contractor wants at first a "meet code" price, and then he hooks the owner up with the bid winner. Then they work out extras, etc. I'm pricing in some decent exhaust fan (downstairs 1/2 bath) and two exhaust fan/light combos (for the upstairs bathrooms) - not those cheap $25 units.

Thanks,

Brett

 

[JohnE]

I've wired hundreds of houses like you describe. I'd be $6500 - $7000 depending upon if it has central AC. Basic house, 3 catv and tel jacks. No recessed lights. Rough in would be 2 days with 2 men. Finish one day. Half a day for the service. Half a day for HVAC if it has it. You have to fly to make money on new residential.

PM me if you want some specific advice.

Good luck,

John

 

[JohnE]

edit: some strange things are happening when I try to post. I click to post the message comes up saying to wait 60 sec. between posts. After the 60 sec. I click and an error message comes up. Then I have a duplicate post. And I'm sure I'm not double clicking. Been happening for 2 days. I apologize for any double posts I made and didn't notice. And if anyone can help figure this out, I'd appreciate it.

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

John - sent you a PM. Thanks for the offer to advise.

That hasn't been happening with me - as far as the double posts.

Brett

 

[tallgirl]

edit: some strange things are happening when I try to post. I click to post the message comes up saying to wait 60 sec. between posts. After the 60 sec. I click and an error message comes up. Then I have a duplicate post. And I'm sure I'm not double clicking. Been happening for 2 days. I apologize for any double posts I made and didn't notice. And if anyone can help figure this out, I'd appreciate it.

There's a thread that discusses this problem. The short answer is "the moderators and webmaster know about it."

 

[ptonsparky]

Did you get a floor plan for this house? Many times you can get the GC to email you the floor plan, use a rather inexpensive cad program to layout your devices. Gives you a material list, you add your labor and divide it out for $/sq ft.

Never have figured out to do a sq ft bid when you don't know how many walls and rooms there are.

 

[blue spark]

Sorry - 2000 sq ft - not including attached garage.

Contractor wants at first a "meet code" price, and then he hooks the owner up with the bid winner. Then they work out extras, etc. I'm pricing in some decent exhaust fan (downstairs 1/2 bath) and two exhaust fan/light combos (for the upstairs bathrooms) - not those cheap $25 units.

Thanks,

Brett

You can knock those out if there's an HRV system being installed with overrides in the bathrooms.

 

[iwire]

You can knock those out if there's an HRV system being installed with overrides in the bathrooms.

Why would he want to, extras are where the money is.


BTW what is a HRV system?

 

[hillbilly]

"Basic house, 3 catv and tel jacks. No recessed lights. Rough in would be 2 days with 2 men. Finish one day. Half a day for the service. Half a day for HVAC if it has it. You have to fly to make money on new residential."

With you working too (8hr/day for the days shown) it totals up to 96 man hours.
Are you telling me that you can wire (and finish) a 2000 sq. ft. home in that amount of time?

I can't fly and I also couldn't bid against you.
I don't want to (and can't) work that hard, regardless the pay.
steve

 

[JohnE]

There's a thread that discusses this problem. The short answer is "the moderators and webmaster know about it."

Thanks, Julie.

 

[JohnE]

"Basic house, 3 catv and tel jacks. No recessed lights. Rough in would be 2 days with 2 men. Finish one day. Half a day for the service. Half a day for HVAC if it has it. You have to fly to make money on new residential."

With you working too (8hr/day for the days shown) it totals up to 96 man hours.
Are you telling me that you can wire (and finish) a 2000 sq. ft. home in that amount of time?

I can't fly and I also couldn't bid against you.
I don't want to (and can't) work that hard, regardless the pay.
steve

Me and one man can wire this house complete in 4 days. 64 man hours total. The basic house, smokes, bath fans and venting, heating system, service, etc. Keep in mind that it is for one of my builders who knows what he's doing and how to schedule. The ceiling is strapped in eastern MA so wires run very quickly. Doesn't include underground portion of service or any extra's. House is ready for me upon arrival meaning framing, windows, roof, rough plumbing and hvac are complete, cellar and garage floors are poured, cellar stairs are in. When I show up for finish, everything except carpets are done. Appliances and fixtures are there. I've done hundreds of these. If I could do these every day for the rest of my life, I'd be bored as hell but would take it. There's money in it if done right. And the work is no harder than anything else I do. It's just knowing how to tackle it. It's no science, but ther is a system that works for us.

I've also done hundreds of larger houses. Some that have taken 3 weeks to rough.

 

[JohnE]

John - sent you a PM. Thanks for the offer to advise.

That hasn't been happening with me - as far as the double posts.

Brett

Brett send me your e-mail. I have some info that is too long to pm.

 

[tmbrk]

I've wired hundreds of houses like you describe. I'd be $6500 - $7000 depending upon if it has central AC. Basic house, 3 catv and tel jacks. No recessed lights. Rough in would be 2 days with 2 men. Finish one day. Half a day for the service. Half a day for HVAC if it has it. You have to fly to make money on new residential.

Is that done in cable or EMT?

I work in the Chicago suburban area and cable is not allowed, everything must be done in EMT. If this is an estimate for cable, what would your price and time frame be for EMT?

 

[JohnE]

Is that done in cable or EMT?

I work in the Chicago suburban area and cable is not allowed, everything must be done in EMT. If this is an estimate for cable, what would your price and time frame be for EMT?

Definitely for nm cable. For EMT, I'd probably be 10 times that amount.:grin:

I've never wired a house using emt. It sounds like a whole different animal.

 

[infinity]

I've wired hundreds of houses like you describe. I'd be $6500 - $7000 depending upon if it has central AC. Basic house, 3 catv and tel jacks. No recessed lights. Rough in would be 2 days with 2 men. Finish one day. Half a day for the service. Half a day for HVAC if it has it. You have to fly to make money on new residential.

PM me if you want some specific advice.

Good luck,

John

If you do this job for this price you will lose money. Around here the price should be nearly twice that amount.

 

[tmbrk]

Thanks for the reply John.

I have in the past done houses using NM in my area, but even in the outlying areas around Chicago (far NW suburbs) most municipalities have now made the switchover to EMT. It is a different animal and at least for me ( I am relatively new to new construction estimating, mostly I have done service work on my own where I know what's fair from seeing my former employers invoices) it is difficult to make the switchover in trying to give a fair price. I have had GCs that have said I'm fair and those who have told me I'm crazy.
Of course, throw in the fact that alot of GCs try to take advantage of new contractors and I don't know what to believe.

 

[JohnE]

If you do this job for this price you will lose money. Around here the price should be nearly twice that amount.

Twice that amount is high for here. You might get another 10%. If you are lucky. And I didn't account for a well since most of my houses have town water. And if the service is underground, that is extra. And my price was for a house I did 6 months ago so maybe romex is $500 higher.

Keep in mind this is a small house in this area. Most of the houses I do are bigger and have a lot of extra's. And nobody I work for is looking for the lowest price.

I think that anyone who hasn't done a lot of houses is going to lose money if they have a competitive bid. If you're new at it you can't be fast at it. And if you can't be fast in new residential, you can't compete unless you're getting some high end customs. Anyone can do a house out of the back of a truck or car. There's little to no overhead. That's what we compete against in the single family residential market.

JMO,

John

edit: Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to charge twice this amount. The market just wont bear it here. Especially now. Everyone is slow. I bet I could find a dozen guys who would love to do a house like this for that price. I know from talking to people that I'm not the lowest price around.

 

[JohnE]

If you do this job for this price you will lose money. Around here the price should be nearly twice that amount.

I've been thinking:

If he doubles it, I could go up and wire it for him.

He can buy the materials, pay me a good rate, and stay home and make money.:grin:

NH is reciprocal with MA.:smile: