One of those "Price that Job!"

[jayrad1122]

Alright I'm trying to come up with total hours to perform several changes/additions.
Attic access through crawl hole above closet shelf, it's a tight fit, even after the removal of all the stuff in the closet. Basement access also possible through drop ceiling.

Task One: Move dining room table light over about 2ft. The light looks heavy so I'm going to use a bracket fan box. It might be possible to reuse the same s.l. but unknown.

Task Two: Add one wall sconce on each side of china cabinet. Distance approximately 10 feet from switch to light. Change switch box (which also is the switch for dining rm light) from 1 gang to 2 gang. Install 2 dimmers (1 for dining room light & 1 for sconces). Access from basement would probably be easier.

Task Three: Install 4- 4" Line voltage old work high hats above kitchen counter. Install 4- 6" old work high hats in kitchen above floor area. Change 1 gang box (controls fluorescent existing now) to 2 gang. S.L. for existing light will be able to be reused to feed 6" cans. Install two dimmers. One needs to be a three way dimmer. Access from attic.

Task Four: Install one wall sconce on each side of bathroom mirror. Change 1 gang box (switch for bathroom light) two 2 gang. Install 2 dimmers. Access from basement would probably be easier.

Task Five: Situation from a thread I just posted. Install coach light on block wall outside of basement door. Change 1 gang box (switch for basement fluorescent lights) to 2 gang box. Box is located in interior 2x4 wall.

Task Six: Mount 4ft. electric baseboard heat on block wall in storage section of basement (no drop ceiling, but stuff EVERYWHERE There is a path to the panel though:roll: ) I'm planning on running 1/2" EMT and 90 into side. Thermostat on heater. Distance Approx. 40' from panel to heater location. Heater will mount behind water heater (water heater is about a foot off of wall). Panel looks like a mess. Bryant breakers, and spaces are full. I can use a 30/30/30/30 (for water heater and non-existent range) and replace with a 30/20/20/30. Supply house gave me a quote for $43.30.

Task Seven (and final): Replace 2 kitchen outlets with GFIs. Replace 2 bathroom outlets with GFIs. Replace 10 outlets throughout the house which are worn out.

House is about one hour away from shop.

My numbers are:
18.5 job hours
3 hrs for driving
1 hr for office/ supply house visits
Total: 22.5 hrs.

So what would your hours be??

Also note this is by myself, no helper, and I'm a slower than most. Hopefully your hours are a lower than mine, if not I need to change them. This took me about an hour to type.

Thank you,

-Jared

 

[William1978]

I hope you add the hours that you spend on here fo this job.

 

[LarryFine]

Jared, how many floors is the house?

 

[electricmanscott]

I think I am going to need a retainer to price this out for you.

 

[Cavie]

A quick read tells me to double the hours.

 

[ceb58]

By what you are describing you better have inventive ways of fishing wire by your self. I would get all holes cut before going into attic. If you can get your SL to the first hole you can work the rest from underneath. I can imagine what you will be working with and your 18 hrs. may not be enough.

 

[jayrad1122]

Jared, how many floors is the house?

basement, 1st floor, then attic.

So it will take me 40hrs to do this job? That seems a little high, but I could believe it. I forgot to account for setup/ cleanup each day.

- Jared

 

[Brian Johns]

I just finished a remodel project, all new wiring in a 100yo building, i had attic access as well as basement, you will most likely have to deal with insulation, what type and how deep? the building i was in had headers over doors and windows, as well as 45 degree angle braces from floor plate to door opening, i did it all by myself. is it plaster and lathe? mine was, sometimes the boxes fit good, sometimes patching has to be done.

Best of luck! personally, i too would double your hours and then some.

 

[jayrad1122]

I just finished a remodel project, all new wiring in a 100yo building, i had attic access as well as basement, you will most likely have to deal with insulation, what type and how deep? the building i was in had headers over doors and windows, as well as 45 degree angle braces from floor plate to door opening, i did it all by myself. is it plaster and lathe? mine was, sometimes the boxes fit good, sometimes patching has to be done.

Best of luck! personally, i too would double your hours and then some.

Insulation is standard ceiling insulation for joists, one on top of the other, so double. Drywall no plaster and lathe. Did you do the patching? Would you do it if it were drywall?

 

[jmsbrush]

I came up with 46 hours! I have much faith in that number. It will be very interesting when you get done with the job. Please let us know when you are done.

 

[jmsbrush]

I came up with 46 hours! I have much faith in that number. It will be very interesting when you get done with the job. Please let us know when you are done.

That also includes yor drive time and set up!

 

[Brian Johns]

Insulation is standard ceiling insulation for joists, one on top of the other, so double. Drywall no plaster and lathe. Did you do the patching? Would you do it if it were drywall?

Would i do the patching? yes, i have, but it depends on the situation, i have also told the HO that i will do my best but i cannot guarantee that some patching will need to be done and that they will have to find someone to do it. I live in a 100yo home and have completely rewired it, not to mention added tons of plugs and switches, this place only had a 30a 120v service when i bought it. sounds like someone will have to patch the dining room light which is moving 2'.

 

[Brian Johns]

This is what i remodelled, i have countless hours involved, i have done some of everything involved. Most all of the decorating was done by me in the Sportsman Suite.

www.millstreetinn.net

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

Basement access also possible through drop ceiling.

Thank you,

-Jared

Quoted. :grin:

 

[Brian Johns]

Quoted. :grin:

I have a metric crescent wrench, do you think i can get a patent on it? your sig. cracked me up!

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

I have a metric crescent wrench, do you think i can get a patent on it?

I see no problem as long as it can do 0.6, 1, 1.4 and 1.6 cm respectively.

 

[LarryFine]

basement, 1st floor, then attic.

Basement access also possible through drop ceiling.

This is a dream house to wire. Okay, task by task:

Task one: Move dining room table light over about 2ft. The light looks heavy so I'm going to use a bracket fan box. It might be possible to reuse the same s.l. but unknown.

This is an easy one: just un-mount the existing box, flip it over and attach it to the framing (if it's a nail-on), the original bar, or a piece of 2x4. Splice a piece of 14-2 where the fixture wires had attached, put on an appropriate blank plate, and mount your new box.

You won't know what kind of box you'll need (fan pancake, half-saddle, side-mount, on-bar type, etc.) until you locate your hole, so have one of everything. Either that, or make all of your new holes and make a list before you go to the store.

Use a 4" 04 4.25" hole saw, and you can use the cut-out circle to patch the old hole. Even easier, they sell a mesh and metal plate patch, sometimes sold as door-knob-hole patches. Get a pint of regular drywall joint compound and a set of plastic taping knives.

Hint: Don't use the light-weight spackling, the one that feels like the container is empty. It's miserable to work with. Do the work that requires patching first, for drying time. All times include hanging average fixtures.

Time: including patching, sanding, and patching again: 4 hours.

Task two: Add one wall sconce on each side of china cabinet. Distance approximately 10 feet from switch to light. Change switch box (which also is the switch for dining rm light) from 1 gang to 2 gang. Install 2 dimmers (1 for dining room light & 1 for sconces). Access from basement would probably be easier.

I'd run in the attic here, because the walls might have fire-stop at the 4' height. You can always make your holes first and check. Again, which box type is best for each hole will depend on what you find after you nake the holes.

Some people prefer rectangular old-work boxes, and some prefer round old-work boxes. You may end up needing a pancake or two, and since you'll be installing a 2-gang switch box (don't forget to check for a grounded conductor there), you might run two separate switch legs.

Drilling up with a flex bit from each sconce hole would make this easy, and you propably don't need to drill above the switch box; if you do, it'll be easy to locate next to the existing hole(s).

For the switch box, find the stud, enlarge the hole for the 2-gang box, remove the 1-gang box, run all wires, stuff the new box (watch the hole edges here), etc.

Time: 3 hours or so.

Task three: Install 4- 4" Line voltage old work high hats above kitchen counter. Install 4- 6" old work high hats in kitchen above floor area. Change 1 gang box (controls fluorescent existing now) to 2 gang. S.L. for existing light will be able to be reused to feed 6" cans. Install two dimmers. One needs to be a three way dimmer. Access from attic.[/i]

You definitely need hole-saws here. I've found that using an 18" to 24" extension makes it much easier to keep control over the hole-saw. We use the clear plastic dishes made for going under potted plants as dust catchers. Otherwise, mostly like the above work.

Time: probably 4-5 hours

Task four: Install one wall sconce on each side of bathroom mirror. Change 1 gang box (switch for bathroom light) two 2 gang. Install 2 dimmers. Access from basement would probably be easier.

Again, mostly like the work above. Don't forget about checking for fire-stop before deciding whether to work from above or below. I think from above is better, except for receptackes (and 2-story houses).

Time: about 3 hours.

Task five: Situation from a thread I just posted. Install coach light on block wall outside of basement door. Change 1 gang box (switch for basement fluorescent lights) to 2 gang box. Box is located in interior 2x4 wall.

I would try to fish the wire, or just drill through the wall with my rotary hammer. It's hard to be specific without seeing this, but...

Time: 2 to 3 hours.

Task six: Mount 4ft. electric baseboard heat on block wall in storage section of basement (no drop ceiling, but stuff EVERYWHERE There is a path to the panel though:roll: ) I'm planning on running 1/2" EMT and 90 into side. Thermostat on heater. Distance Approx. 40' from panel to heater location. Heater will mount behind water heater (water heater is about a foot off of wall). Panel looks like a mess. Bryant breakers, and spaces are full. I can use a 30/30/30/30 (for water heater and non-existent range) and replace with a 30/20/20/30. Supply house gave me a quote for $43.30.

You can get them for around half of that at the orange and/or blue stores. Cutler-Hammer type BR. I prefer using 15 and/or 20 amp tandems and full-size larger breakers when I have the option. You should tell the customer they must clear the area.

Time: 3-4 hours.

Task seven (and final): Replace 2 kitchen outlets with GFIs. Replace 2 bathroom outlets with GFIs. Replace 10 outlets throughout the house which are worn out.

Time: 3 hours; customer should move furniture.

House is about one hour away from shop.

My numbers are:
18.5 job hours
3 hrs for driving
1 hr for office/ supply house visits
Total: 22.5 hrs.

Not too bad overall on the hours, but how do you get 3 hours of drive time to a job 1 hour away? You might end up in a third day, unless you get a helper, who need not be experienced, just small enough to get into the attic.

To me, this is clearly at least a full 3-day job, all things considered, and that's what I'd base my labor on. But then, I am faster than the average bear. I try to get at least $1000 labor for a full day, but then, we have one employee, and he's a great helper.

So what would your hours be??

Also note this is by myself, no helper, and I'm a slower than most. Hopefully your hours are a lower than mine, if not I need to change them. This took me about an hour to type.

Me, too. Do you have a friend, cousin, brother, etc., who would work with youfor three days? It could come close to halving the time and definitely make fishing easier, not to mention toting tools and materials in and out. You want to see the helper hustle? Offer a set price instead of an hourly.

I mark most materials up 25%, and you should be able to hit the store once. Again, I suggest making all your holes the first day, and make a shopping list for your box types and other suprises. Whatever you do, don't drop your price because you did it faster than you thought.

$4000 with materials; customer provides all fixtures.

 

[g@friendly]

Why are we telling one how to do and price this job? I can see helping someone with a part of a job.... but the whole thing? Has this person ever done any electrical work? LarryFine I think you are right on target good job. Use a 4 1/8 hole saw perfect fit.

 

[jayrad1122]

Why are we telling one how to do and price this job? I can see helping someone with a part of a job.... but the whole thing? Has this person ever done any electrical work? LarryFine I think you are right on target good job. Use a 4 1/8 hole saw perfect fit.

g@friendly, I only asked for labor hours, not how to do or even price the job, although it is appreciated. I made sure I put down the hours that I thought I would need to do this job. I posted this thread b/c last job I did I under-quote by a lot and I just wanted to see if I'm way off, apparently I am by half. I forget about all the little items, the running back and forth, clean-up, etc. I love this site b/c it helps me out in so many ways. And yes, I have done electrical work before, my experience may not be anywhere close to yours or others, but I'm just starting out. I do ALL my installations to code. Thank you for the hole saw tip. :wink:

jmsbrush, 46 hours total. After reviewing my totals, I came up with 43. Three days, 15, 13, 15 hours per day including driving. After again looking at it I probably should make it 4 days instead of three and I get 11.5/day including driving which gives me 46. I was going to ask you how many days this would take you, but I answered my own question:roll: .

 

[jjhoward]

I did a quick review and used fixed prices for each task.
I come up with $2725.
That is with 2 service call fees (2 days). I assumed a crew of 2 men.
Obviously that is about 32 hrs.
But this type of estimating always gives me very conservative man/hrs.
I would go with at least 40 hrs.