Panelboard under flood waters briefly

[wbalsam1]

Hi: Just recently several homes in my area had their basement/cellar areas flooded from the nearby river overflowing its banks. The main service panelboards were located in the basements and in each case they were completely underwater. The power company deenergized these services and called for inspections prior to reenergizing. A local electrical inspector sent cut-in cards to the power company as soon as the waters receded, without requiring any action at all. Does any one think it is safe to do this without either replacing the panelboard, main and circuit breakers and examining the nm cables for moisture within the paper-covered egc?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

although the panel boards and breakers would have functioned fine underwater, I believe they should be replaced ASAP because the integrity of the breakers, at least, may be compromised.

 

[stevedonovan2]

although the panel boards and breakers would have functioned fine underwater, I believe they should be replaced ASAP because the integrity of the breakers, at least, may be compromised.

I agree. Ive seen water damage panels from a pipe burst,a 15 amp breaker had almost 18.5A running on it .It never trippped

 

[jim dungar]

There are many publications that talk about replacing water damaged equipment. I believe the Consumer Products Safety Council even has one.

This is a link to one from Square D.
http://ecatalog.squared.com/techlib/docdetail.cfm?oid=090089268017ae0dhttp://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Electrical Distribution/0110DB0401.pdf

 

[wbalsam1]

"Hook 'er up, Joe"

"Hook 'er up, Joe"

Hi: It seems like such a "no-brainer" to reject the inspection and require new main breaker panelboard and circuit breakers. But......"hook 'er up, Joe".

 

[brian john]

Based upon my expierence in emergency situations the bus and insulators can be sucessfuly cleaned and meggered with good results. The circuit breakers can be cleaned and utilzed for the short term, but even with a through cleaning and adequate lubrication the moving parts that are steel will rust and must be replaced.

I have dried 500 kva dry type transformers and the associated switchgear with sucess, as the equipment copuld not be replaced. The distribution equipment was in a concrete vault that the equipment could not fit out of. We still replaced the CBs.

But residential panel are inexpenisive and if you are replacing the CBs do the whole thing.

 

[petersonra]

I agree. Ive seen water damage panels from a pipe burst,a 15 amp breaker had almost 18.5A running on it .It never trippped

A 15A CB with 18.5A running through it might well run indefinitely without tripping.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Apply some brains here.They have yet to make any breakers or panels to be water cooled.They need replaced and hopefully insurance covered.Just because the lights still are on does not make it safe.

 

[wbalsam1]

Lets go shopping

Lets go shopping

What really gets me here, is that a dear friend is an inspector who failed the inspections and another area inspector passed them. Shopping for an opinion pays handsomely, heh?

 

[mdshunk]

There's a NEMA document that explains all that in great detail. "Guidelines for Handling Water Damaged Electrical Equipment".

 

[wbalsam1]

Mdshunk

Mdshunk

Thank you very much. Already I have found (after downloading the above mentioned phamplet from the NEMA site) the requirement to replace all molded case circuit breakers, and all NM-B cable exposed to the floodwaters and all AFCI's, GFCI's, surge arresters, and wiring devices such as switches, receptacles and dimmers and also lighting fixtures.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I agree .. I recently had a flooded panel . I dried out the panel with hair dryer. From the neighbors power. replaced the breakers. Sometime later I broke apart some of those breakers Found little or no trace of water or rust.. Any I would be wary of trusting these.

 

[deronmoped]

I would just replace the breakers as they are cheap and could give you trouble if you reuse them, the CB's are not worth getting called back out. The panel will be fine, just blow it out with compressed air to get the water out of the tight spots.

Water you know is a insulator, it's the dirt that is not.

I have saved electronic equipment that has been under water, just dryed it out real good and it still worked.

Deron.

 

[brian john]

I would not reuse any distribution equipment without first meggering the equipment, phase to phase, phase to neutral and neutral to ground. Water does not conduct, but all the mud, sewage and debris sure do.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

We recently had a very similar situation just 'down the road' from you. One thing to try and remember is that the rising water from the river is most likely not 'clean' water and will be contaminated. There are different 'class' ratings of contaminated water. It behoves you to speak to the building department, show them the Water Damaged articles and high suggest the effected equipmment and wiring be replaced for safety reasons.
good luck!!

 

[brian john]

I did not add and after a recent phone call from a contractor, I MUST SAY THIS, when meggering distribution equipment in the 120/208-277/480 DO NOT USE over 1000 VDC.

 

[mdshunk]

I did not add and after a recent phone call from a contractor, I MUST SAY THIS, when meggering distribution equipment in the 120/208-277/480 DO NOT USE over 1000 VDC.

:grin:

Okay, so what happened? :wink:

 

[volt102]

mdshunk,

That nema document link that you posted was my bible while we had two floods in my area, one on mother's day and the second just a few months after that. I made a bunch of copies and gave them to the electricians and the homeowners involved. It was quite a downer having to go to their homes after they have just experienced such a disaster, and tell them that they are not getting power turned back on until they spend a bunch of money and have the wires/breakers replaced. The only thing that helped me was knowing that my city would not be going back there to put out a fire!

 

[allenwayne]

Ok after reading this thread and thinking of an older one.About roughing in without being dried in.It came to mind how is this different.Because the water was from a flood ???? The thread I mentioned was about a home that was roughed in without any type of roof coating over the sheathing.The general answer was that it was OK.In that thread I mentioned that if it was my home I wouldn`t want the wiring in it to be allowed to exist.(had to duck from the stones )

Here the ahj if he sees a rough in not dried in he stops and since they are allowed to inspect any ec permit at anytime even if not called for an inspection can direct you to remove all wiring and start from scratch.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Ok after reading this thread and thinking of an older one.About roughing in without being dried in.It came to mind how is this different.Because the water was from a flood ???? The thread I mentioned was about a home that was roughed in without any type of roof coating over the sheathing.The general answer was that it was OK.In that thread I mentioned that if it was my home I wouldn`t want the wiring in it to be allowed to exist.(had to duck from the stones )

Here the ahj if he sees a rough in not dried in he stops and since they are allowed to inspect any ec permit at anytime even if not called for an inspection can direct you to remove all wiring and start from scratch.

And they should make you remove it and every can.It is not rated for wet.No warranty on anything involved.