quick question about removal of wire

[mdshunk]

A dedicated circuit doesn't need to be used for a kitchen? I know that you must assume that anything is possible, see all options, but that is just another question to add...so i know for this presentation.

The kitchen counter circuits are only supposed to be used for kitchen counter receptacles, and maybe the dining room if the installer was feeling froggy. In days gone by, or in recent times if the homeowner fancied himself as a do it yourselfer, all bets are off. In time, you can casually observe how old the installation might be and how much it's been wrenched on over the years to determine if what you're going to troubleshoot follows the "rules" you know or not. You can really go down the garden path and waste a bunch of time if you go into troubleshooting with unfounded assumptions.

 

[Co-op Student 1]

So what your saying is that over the years things happen and people work on the house and circuits thus meaning that the typical troubleshooting methods may not always work Nor are typical problems the actual problem.

is there anyway that you could explain the lost phase a little more...i understand it somewhat but just that extra expierience may help a little......but the problem was 1/2 the receptacles don't work

 

[mdshunk]

is there anyway that you could explain the lost phase a little more...i understand it somewhat but just that extra expierience may help a little......but the problem was 1/2 the receptacles don't work

"phase" might not really be the right term, but I meant that in a house, you have two hots and the neutral coming in. If one of the "hots" was lost coming in (bad utility tap, etc.), every other circuit in the panel would not work. You'd be surprised how many times I go on a trouble call related to one certain circuit, and it turns out that they actually lost a whole leg. They only realized at the time of reporting that they were actually missing every other circuit.

 

[Co-op Student 1]

so your saying that the homeowner may not have checked every receptacle on that circuit so they are saying the receptacles don't all work?

 

[mdshunk]

So what your saying is that over the years things happen and people work on the house and circuits thus meaning that the typical troubleshooting methods may not always work Nor are typical problems the actual problem.

That's s'zackly what I'm saying. Teachers often want you to regurgitate the textbook answer, but the places you'll be working in were never in the textbook. :wink:

 

[mdshunk]

so your saying that the homeowner may not have checked every receptacle on that circuit so they are saying the receptacles don't all work?

No, while that may possibly be, what I'm saying is that they may have much more in the house that isn't working, and they've only realized that one kitchen circuit at the time of reporting.

 

[Co-op Student 1]

No, while that may possibly be, what I'm saying is that they may have much more in the house that isn't working, and they've only realized that one kitchen circuit at the time of reporting.

yes i realized that....this is actually a good thing to also put in the receptacle....wow i'm glad i joined this...its got my mind really thinking now

I'm also saying that the customer might say half in the kitchen b/c they have not yet tested the other receptacles there.....along iwth other parts of the house

 

[M. D.]

This thread makes me wish I were a young grasshopper again,... well not really ,... welcome kid

 

[quogueelectric]

I thought I was the only one

I thought I was the only one

Here's a handy tip... if the hot and the neutral are both open, you're more than likely hunting a tripped GFCI. If just one or the other is open, you're likely hunting a failed connection of some sort.

Who knew this this is the basis of all troubleshooting. Go to the problem with a tester and see what you can find with a dvm. What is open what is shorted what shows some sort of resistance or voltage?? I had a guy that worked with me who chopped up the bosses patio for no good reason because he couldnt read the neutral on a tripped gfci breaker to his pool. You are the first person I have ever heard say this besides me in 25 yrs when I discovered it bravo.

 

[mdshunk]

You are the first person I have ever heard say this besides me in 25 yrs when I discovered it bravo.

I had a customer recognize me when I was out at the store with my son. He said to my son, "That Dad of yours, he's not so dumb".

 

[quogueelectric]

To help the OP

To help the OP

The problem to me is not a problem in the wall It is probably a triped gfci on the small appliance branch circuits for the kithchen. One circuit probably tripped. It is very seldom a problem just comes out of nowhere like a screw or nail or staple in the wall. It is much more likely some gfci tripped and took out all outlets downstream.

 

[M. D.]

I had a guy that worked with me who chopped up the bosses patio for no good reason because he couldnt read the neutral on a tripped gfci breaker to his pool. .

This guy must have provided hours of entertainment:smile:

 

[M. D.]

I'd look for a switch on the wall too,..half of the duplex receptacles just might be switched.

 

[Co-op Student 1]

Currently writin up the outline that i'm going to use for my presentation...coming along nicely....

anyone else have more to add?

 

[M. D.]

Just this,.. check the panel again there is most likely another SABC that has tripped when the H.O. moved the faulty appliance to the other circuit and plugged it in

 

[Co-op Student 1]

Thanks all you guys for your help....

i've got my hands on component about 3/4 of the way built as well....
I can't say thanks enough. Talking to you guys actually helped get my mind thinking of more than just the basics that could have happened.


Thanks aGain,
David

 

[Co-op Student 1]

alright guys sorry if this is "double posting" i know other forums don't appreciate it....

I'd like to say that i'm about 7/8 or so done the project hands on wize

If you guys would like i'll post some pictures once i get a chance

 

[M. D.]

Yikes ,.... back to back posts are a breech of educate?? what do they do to you ,..when you do triples

 

[Awg-Dawg]

Best thread I have seen in awhile.

Its nice to see enthusiasm like Co-op's.:smile: