Receptacles In Drawers.

[M. D.]

If it is not premises wiring and it is not a listed device/piece of equipment what is it? A fancy field created extension cord perhaps?

 

[M. D.]

I posted this on the Island thread I thought I was here

Look closely at the picture ,.. behind that red cloth like thing with the fringe , me thinks I spy the conner of a wall plate with what appears to be a silver two wire cord running to the mirror on the left side of the photo .

I think this picture was a mock up to be used to express an idea.

I'm not sure who said first but I too think it odd that we can see the drawer below but no wiring method.
__________________
Yup , that hair dryer attachment plug is working directly with the curling iron to hold that non-outlet up, no doubt about it :grin:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

M.D. I think that silver cord goes to the lighted mirror on the counter.

 

[M. D.]

M.D. I think that silver cord goes to the lighted mirror on the counter.

I thought that is what I said ??:-?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

First off 400.8(1) and (7) are irrelevant as this installation is specifically permitted by 400.7(A)(9).
Next I find it interesting you can tell from this picture that the cord is subject to damage.

Lets say I have a commercial electric overhead door.

Lets say it has a reversing safety edge on the bottom of it.

What wiring method may I use to connect the door that may move 8' 10' 12' up and down to the stationary motor operator?

Of course flexible cord.

Is the cord in the drawer more subject to damage then the rubber cord hanging beside a overhead door?



Again not relevant.

The NEC does not require a cord to be visible their entire length.



Your right no method in Chapter 3 is suitable for this use.

Some of the flexible cords in Article 400 are suitable for this use.

It's not about how we feel about it, it is about what the code does or does not require.

I totally disagree with this being permitted by 400.7(9), moving draws with the handy box installation are not the moving parts that are intended for .7(9), I think that your example of the garage door opener is a good one for 400.7(A)(9)

I base my "physical damage" comment on the fact that in those cabinets, I have seen there are the runner edges and we do not know how one is trying to control the cord as the draw is pulled out and then in again...time and again.

your electric over head door is not relevant to this photo. (the cord by the side of the overhead door is visible, one could see if there was any damage to it during the opening/closing)

"It's not about how we feel about it, it is about what the code does or does not require"

This is a judgement based on many years of experience, not a "feeling".

Again the installation is a field installed item, which in my opinion falls under "premises wiring".


George
My mention of the "manufactured" item is not to say that all items are necessarily needed to be listed, just that if I saw a listed item for this application I would accept it. I am not against receptacles in draws, just not properly installed ones.

 

[M. D.]

Can a hair dryer be supplied through the use of an extesion cord ?
If so, wouldn't this extension cord be replacing a wiring method?
A while ago I thought it could be installed and be code compliant,.. now I'm not so sure.

I'm not sure what the fact that cords are not wiring methods has , if anything, to do with this question. It seems as if the cord is doing what the fixed wiring method should be doing..... supplying an outlet for the attachment of electrical equipment employed in the bathroom

 

[M. D.]

I just looked at the tag on my wife's dryer cord . In big red letters it says "UNPLUG IT" . It also states it again on a list of things to do and things not to do , number one is "always unplug it" .
If I were to be asked to install one of these receptacle outlets in a drawer (I haven't as of yet) I would try my damnedest to get the people to see the danger . As for the argument that an appliance garage has equipment stored while being pluged in,... none of the things in my kitchen which are left pluged in have a tag with big red words telling me to "UNPLUG IT always unplug it"

I have changed my opinion I am with Pierre on this one . That cord is not a wiring method and it is being used as one .

 

[iwire]

I have changed my opinion I am with Pierre on this one . That cord is not a wiring method and it is being used as one .

What code section would you cite?

Flexible cord is allowed to connect moving parts.

 

[M. D.]

400.8(1)

100; Structure ; that which is built or constructed

This is a broad definition to be sure , but I would say the cord is being used as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure.
Flexible cords are not a wiring method this cord is being used as one .
An electrical device is not utilization equipment there is no need for a cord to be so employed.
Perhaps 400.8(7) can't tell from the photo.

If this were the top drawer and a wiring method suitable were attached to the under surface of the counter to supply a receptacle outlet ,attached likewise ,,I don't have a leg to stand on.



Moving parts of what ?
if the drawer were a piece of utilization equipment you would have a stronger argumment

 

[George Stolz]

Premises Wiring (System). That interior and exterior wiring, including power, lighting, control, and signal circuit wiring together with all their associated hardware, fittings, and wiring devices, both permanently and temporarily installed, that extends from the service point or source of power, such as a battery, a solar photovoltaic system, or a generator, transformer, or converter windings, to the outlet(s). Such wiring does not include wiring internal to appliances, luminaires (fixtures), motors, controllers, motor control centers, and similar equipment.

IMO, the definition states that the premises wiring stops at the outlet. If this is plugged into a receptacle, then I do not see how it could be considered "substituting for the fixed wiring of a structure."

(Bob, I'm not ignoring the post on the last page, it's a good point - I just noticed a different tack to take on this. )

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If this is plugged into a receptacle, then I do not see how it could be considered "substituting for the fixed wiring of a structure."

The only way I see it as fixed is the handy box that is fastened in place --- the question is "is it really fastened if the whole drawer is moving"?

 

[George Stolz]

Would a surge strip be premises wiring?

 

[M. D.]

Well ,that would be my argument don't know if I would win .

In residential work I don't really use extension cords for anything other than temporary power. If the garage door opener cord won't reach the outlet , the outlet moves to within reach. if the freezer in the basement is to far from an outlet?? "Hey lady run down the store get me a 25' cord,.. 12/3 should do it" Nope I'm not doing it .

George if this were a 50' orange extention cord 12/3 with the female passed through a hole in the back end of the drawer ,... you get the point. If the homeowner does it.,,, well I'm not sure he can violate the code, I 'm not gonna start plugging in extension cords for people no matter what they look like.
They want a wall outlet in the cabinet under the sink , fine. They can take over from there,... all kinds of cords out there just plug it in and go!