chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
Could be. 240.85. You would be surprised how many guys don't think about this.
Red leg revisited
- Thread starter tonype
- Start date
- Status
Could be. 240.85. You would be surprised how many guys don't think about this.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Don,
Yes I am sure. I believe this is why we see so many people confuse the location of this conductor.
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
Yeah....
That's my thinking too... Some one rotated the phases up-stream - then magic marker man set something on fire - but lacked phase tape or the effort to correct it...I bet this sign was hung after some equipment let smoke out.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The reason we see the confusion on this issue is the fact that it has to be in the C phase position for some metering equipment to work. I don't think it is a NESC rule, at least I can't find such a rule in my copy, but it is about 20 years old. Can you cite the section and the rule?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
You're both right, I should have included that info in my post.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
The sign says orange 199v and wild leg red. The tape looks to be more orange than red. I wonder what the individual meant by wild red leg?
Chenley
Member
- Location
- Western KY
Just installed a new 3-phase service last week and the wild leg had to be on the C phase of the meter base. I landed the wild leg on B within the main panel though. PoCo says there meters won't give a true reading if it's not landed on the C phase within the meter base.
You'll see it on Milbank meter bases, there's two orange stickers above and below the C phase stating "Power Leg".
You'll see it on Milbank meter bases, there's two orange stickers above and below the C phase stating "Power Leg".
jcole
Senior Member
- Location
- Lawrenceburg, Kentucky
Where are the equipment grounding conductors? I dont see any green or bare conductors.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I appears that there are metallic conduits or AC cables containing those circuit conductors so I would guess that no wire type EGC is required.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
I didn't know the code reference and didn't take the time to look it up so I didn't post it (lazy me, sorry).
The picture looks like the panel takes QO (not QOB) breakers. Square D does not make (that I've ever found) a 2-pole QO that is straight 240-volt rated. They do make a QOB-H that is straight 240-volt rated, but alas, I don't think that panel accepts QOB breakers.
I may be wrong, but I think these fit the requirement.
I recall having to purchase some (note the price difference between slash rated and non slash rated)
View attachment 4011
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
Nope, you are right and I am wrong (again, <sigh>).
I read the Square D digest tooooo fast. Thanks for straightening me out augie! :grin:
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Since some of us, who almost never work on Delta systems, are a little fuzzy with the slash rated CB's could someone explain it?
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
(I hope I don't screw this up).
A slash rated breaker would say 120/240. If this is on the breaker, then the voltage of any ungrounded phase must not exceed the lowest rating when measured to ground and the voltage between any ungrouded phases must not exceed the higher rating.
So, if you used this breaker on a high-leg phase and another phase, you would meet the 2nd requirement because the voltage between phases wold be 240-volts. You would not meet the 1st requirement because the high-leg voltage to ground would be in excess of 120-volt (lower slash rating of the breaker).
To use the high-leg and another phase, you would need a breaker that did not have a "/" rating. As Augie pointed out, the cost of these breakers is quite a premium.
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I have seen this done before although I don't think a good idea
the open positions in the panel should be the "wild leg" no matter if on the proper buss or not.
on these older QO panels there were three main buss bars with the breaker attachment sections bolted to the main buss.
Take a close look at the panel in the OP. In the open positions the secections that allow a breaker to plug on have been removed
I have run into panels before where someone has done this probably to keep someone that is not qualified from accidently connecting 120 volt circuit to wild leg. What I don't like is now if I want to use that position for something that will work there I can't.
I like to see unqualified people burn up equipment on wild leg, it shows that they are not qualified, and if you try to explain what they did they look totally confused.
the open positions in the panel should be the "wild leg" no matter if on the proper buss or not.
on these older QO panels there were three main buss bars with the breaker attachment sections bolted to the main buss.
Take a close look at the panel in the OP. In the open positions the secections that allow a breaker to plug on have been removed
I have run into panels before where someone has done this probably to keep someone that is not qualified from accidently connecting 120 volt circuit to wild leg. What I don't like is now if I want to use that position for something that will work there I can't.
I like to see unqualified people burn up equipment on wild leg, it shows that they are not qualified, and if you try to explain what they did they look totally confused.
readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
I was trying to explain it to one guy, like you say he looked totally confused, he said "but I've run 120 volt circuits out of a three phase panel before." Must have been his first delta.
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Concerning the center phase being marked orange.
Often when someone unfamiliar with 240v four wire delta systems, miss mark them as if they were 208v Wye.
Could be it was never remarked, and the utility company figured out what was terminated on the C phase in the meter and tied it in that way to suit there needs.
You would think that shouldn't happen, and it would at least be remarked, but it could.
Most of the 3 phase in my area is 240v four wire delta. All the meters for this system are wired with the 208v leg in the C phase position. The utility meter requires 120v to ground at the B phase for the meter to operate.
Most of the time the 208v leg is move to the center or B phase position at the Main Switch.
Often when someone unfamiliar with 240v four wire delta systems, miss mark them as if they were 208v Wye.
Could be it was never remarked, and the utility company figured out what was terminated on the C phase in the meter and tied it in that way to suit there needs.
You would think that shouldn't happen, and it would at least be remarked, but it could.
Most of the 3 phase in my area is 240v four wire delta. All the meters for this system are wired with the 208v leg in the C phase position. The utility meter requires 120v to ground at the B phase for the meter to operate.
Most of the time the 208v leg is move to the center or B phase position at the Main Switch.
glene77is
Senior Member
- Location
- Memphis, TN
Nak,
""
but as you can see from the breakers C phase is obviously the wild leg.
""
How can you tell that?
""
but as you can see from the breakers C phase is obviously the wild leg.
""
How can you tell that?
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