Residential Remodel/Rewire in MC
- Thread starter BMacky
- Start date
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JDB3
Senior Member
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
I have read all of the posts yet. I would say 3 times labor costs for MC. There are some residential framing situations where it is difficult to run MN, much less MC (next to impossible).
Also, when others are furnishing material, I have ran into problems with them getting me the material when I need it (short of the material I asked for, wrong material, etc.).. Even in one case where the owner worked at a electrical supply place!
As far as getting all of the MC into the ko's in the panel, I have done jobs where we set a j-box above insulation & above the panel, ran the home-runs into it, & then conduit into the panel (kept it below 24" so d-rating did not enter in).
Also, when others are furnishing material, I have ran into problems with them getting me the material when I need it (short of the material I asked for, wrong material, etc.).. Even in one case where the owner worked at a electrical supply place!
As far as getting all of the MC into the ko's in the panel, I have done jobs where we set a j-box above insulation & above the panel, ran the home-runs into it, & then conduit into the panel (kept it below 24" so d-rating did not enter in).
iceworm
Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
- Location
- North of the 65 parallel
- Occupation
- EE (Field - as little design as possible)
It's an interesting business plan that start's out with:
"First never bid on any job that is in the $100K range and up - cause they will likely want to buy some of the material"
Or does this only apply to house roping?
ice
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
That is probably a good general rule, but there are exceptions.
I've even been in industrial places where they do buy their own material, but I had to fill out their purchase orders for materials that I wanted.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
You know I used to be more inclined to agree with that but......There is really something to be said for: not having to bank role materials, not having to pick stuff up, deal with inventory/extras/returns/warranty. Then there is the time saved and risk from a mistake eliminated not having to figure out materials for a quote. I agree with what a previous poster said about just insist on a extra trip charge for delayed/missing/incorrect material.
mwm1752
Senior Member
- Location
- Aspen, Colo
If you do T&M is the only way to price labor -- Owners never know what types & amount of material to buy -- you could be on the job for an hour & not have the appropriate material on site to be effecient. 10 days of 3-4 hours does not equal a 40 hour week in my experience.
electricalist
Senior Member
- Location
- dallas tx
I guess im not that good at running mc in wood.
In houses there tends to be more 2/3/4 gang switches and framing is for sure an issue. Try to feed 2 4 gangs at a wood framed 2 story entry. For sure the tight nm runs on a kitch island back splash. Mc isnt made to bend that way.
In the end the better deal is. Disconnect. Outside panel at walk in attic and pipe down to the first floor.. And if nothing else a customer who wants to buy the material is guaranteed to forget something and pipe is better than patching and repainting.imho
KD4315
Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
Where did you put the boxes for them to be considered accessible? Were there a bunch of access panels throughout the house? I've though about rewiring my house like this but I worried what a resi inspector will consider accessible for the boxes. My background is strictly commercial/industrial and have never once did a resi job. Never touched romex and only worked with MC Cable a hand full of times.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
I agree, take your NM price and multiply by 2X and you'll have your labor cost (I'm guessing at the 2X number).
My entire house is wired with AC cable and metal boxes which was left over stock from a commercial job. :thumbsup:
yeah, lassoing a frame structure with AC does not go as well as romex.
longer to lasso, plus your gloves get dirty... eww.
i'd double the labor as well. pulling out a single phase house means two circuits
per raceway....
while they are at it, get them to use LED's for all the can lighting.
you can put a lot more lights on a 15 amp circuit, and have less wire to pull...
- Location
- Massachusetts
With 15, 20 and 30 amp circuits you can usally put 9 current carrying conductors in single raceway without derating being a code issue.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Exactly my thought and that is exactly what I did-- well not exactly- I didn't buy the steaks but the home owner owned a restaurant and I asked him if I bought a steak to his business would he cook it for me. He played like he didn't understand so I told him very clearly "Get someone else".
If the owner is getting materials I would add a bunch of money in extra for markup on materials that he bought. I would guestimate the materials and put my markup on it. If not then I would add a bunch to my labor to compensate for the materials.
cal1947
Member
- Location
- waldorf,md
Cal1947
Cal1947
Mc is good as long as you pull it thru with the spirals going the opposite direction
Cal1947
Mc is good as long as you pull it thru with the spirals going the opposite direction
liquidtite
Senior Member
- Location
- Ny
Ive ive had home owners say to me pick up material but make Shure you show me receipt so I can't make any money on material .
What do you do then ?
electricalist
Senior Member
- Location
- dallas tx
Give them the receipt and mention that doesnt include your time and interests on the credit card.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
What is considered accessible is somewhat of a judgement call. Ever had to access the junction box of an installed recessed light fixture through the hole in a finished ceiling? Inspectors don't reject them, they are listed for the purpose, I haven't had to access that many but every one I did was not easy to access - maybe is better for someone with smaller hands. I have also had to "low crawl" as well as dig through insulation to access junction boxes in both residential and non residential applications - but they technically still were "accessible".
That is what I do - add extra labor, it is harder to argue, and if they want you to clock in so they can keep track of every minute - then I will accept lower pay, but expect to not need to provide insurance both liability and workers compensation, plus they can pay the employer half of the SS taxes as well, because now instead of selling them my goods and services I am now an employee. I didn't eve get into other overhead costs yet those are just a few up front costs any business would have in such a situation.
Explain to them that all business owners analyze their costs when setting rates for resale as well as for service rates. In a typical electrical contracting business those rates are based on averages of items sold, and hours worked, and after crunching those numbers they set the rates they think they need to keep in business. If they want to come in and change the structure of things then the business needs to re-evaluate what needs to be charged to attain similar profits - or the doors will not be staying open. If they can't understand that - they are not a customer worth trying to keep. Funny thing is the ones that are the worst at that kind of thing are typically successful business owners that pinch every penny, they often are willing to pay what you ask for but will do anything to get you to bite on less, you just need to have the guts to call their bluff.
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