scam or real deal

[Jraef]

Wow, I like that, it's much better than the Beer / Foam analogy, especially in that it has the concept of energy use in there, which relates to the specific issue of these scams.

Not as tasty, but it's a better explanation. Thanks.:thumbsup:

 

[weressl]

110609-2145 EDT

Dom99:

The power consumed by the motor, and what you are billed, is based on 0.6 times the measured VA. Volts time Amperes is not Watts except for a resistive load and then they have to be a special kind of V and A. V * A is Volt-amperes, not necessarily watts.

Only under certain special conditions does the PF provide a measure of the phase shift of the current relative to the voltage. This is for a sine wave voltage source and linear loads. In this case you're refering to a motor and that is a linear load.

.

Isn't that the vast majority of the loads, accross the board when you lok at the total consumption of electricity?

 

[K8MHZ]

Putting all technicalities aside, this is all you need to know. These days, we use higher fuel pressure to raise the boiling point, but earlier fuel injection system commonly looped fuel around in a circle so that fuel doesn't boil and cause a vapor lock in the fuel rail from engine's heat.

A-B = fuel consumed by engine, this is what you put in your gas tank and what you pay for.

A=fuel flowing to rail.

B=fuel returning to tank.

You could say that power factor is comparable to (A-B)/A

Say you have a power factor of 0.5. When you consume 10 gallons of gas, the fuel filter and fuel pump will have to handle 20 gallons of gas. If you have a power factor of 0, the gas is just going around in a circle but none is consumed.

The A line can only carry so much.
Say that the fuel pump and filter belong to the power company. If you have a poor power factor, you're charged a penalty for wasting power company's resource by using excess amount of "A" path's capacity IF AND ONLY IF YOUR BILLING SCHEDULE IS STRUCTURED AS SUCH. Residential customers are not on that schedule.

If you put a recirculation pump and a radiator between A and B right by the fuel rail, the amount of gas going back to the tank will become zero, but the amount of gas you'll have to buy won't change. This is beneficial if you're surcharged for the amount of fuel that flows through the filter. If you're not, its useless.

Having seen the transition from carbs to FI and working on FI as it evolved, I would like to point out a few things.

These days, we use higher fuel pressure to raise the boiling point

The pressure is not all that high (50 psi) and it's function is to atomize the fuel as it leaves the injectors.

commonly looped fuel around in a circle so that fuel doesn't boil and cause a vapor lock

The reason there is no vapor lock is due to the fact that the fuel pump is submerged in fuel inside the fuel tank. The reason there is recirculation is because FI systems have no float bowl and is using the fuel tank for the function the float bowl served, and that is to assure an adequate volume under constantly changing demands.

Fuel pressure regulators are not adjustable from the factory. If they were, it would be easy to change the pressure and thus cause pollution, engine damage and cat damage. They are available aftermarket and void the vehicle's warranty and adversely affect emissions.

If you put a recirculation pump and a radiator between A and B right by the fuel rail, the amount of gas going back to the tank will become zero, but the amount of gas you'll have to buy won't change.

I disagree. The pressure regulator needs a place to dump fuel. It's simple hydraulics. Your suggestion would not allow for excess fuel to return and the system would would become severely over pressurized. Take a look at the hydraulic diagram of a pressure regulator. The fluid on the secondary side is always redirected to the tank. In pneumatic regulators, the secondary side is vented into the atmosphere.

Also, if you really think about it, your fuel to electron analogy is flawed as the fuel flow is only in one direction and emulates a DC circuit. The flow back to the tank does not represent reactance well at all, but rather a short circuit. The regulator would be a variable resistor. The injectors would be loads with current measured as flow through the injector and voltage as the difference in pressure from one side of the injector to the other.

It was a noble and valiant attempt, but I have to say no to your analogy. I don't think it explains reactance at all.

Please, don't take it personally, but I am looking at this from the perspective of a former ASE auto tech and a licensed electrician with a ham radio license as well. I was also trained in hydraulics by Parker-Hannefin.

 

[gar]

110620-1258 EDT

K8MHZ:

Slight modification on pressure:

EcoBoost Direct Injection

The EcoBoost direct injection system precisely delivers a fine mist of fuel directly into each cylinder for optimal performance, economy and emissions. Unlike port-fuel-injection (PFI) engines that spray fuel in the intake system, the direct injection system puts the fuel exactly where it needs to be for combustion.

A high-pressure injector is positioned to the side of each cylinder, aiming the fuel directly into the cylinder adjacent to a high-intensity spark plug and alongside the intake and exhaust valves. Fuel is sprayed into the cylinders at pressures of up to 2,150 pounds per square inch (PSI), which is about 35 times more intense than PFI injection.

Fuel from the vehicle tank is pumped at normal pressure to the engine compartment, where a special, cam-driven, high-pressure fuel pump increases the fuel pressure. Depending on the demands of the driver, the system operates between 200 and 2,150 PSI.

But nothing wrong with your comment.

.

 

[Electric-Light]

void the vehicle's warranty and adversely affect emissions.

Wrong. Only if it could be proven that the modification directly lead to the failure and onus is on the manufacturer to prove it even though that's not what they want you to believe. As an ASE certified personnel, I would imagine you're familiar with MM Act of 1975.

Also, if you really think about it, your fuel to electron analogy is flawed

It isn't a PERFECT technically competent explanation. It was dumbed down, so the general practical electricians and handymans get the idea.

as the fuel flow is only in one direction and emulates a DC circuit.

Completely disagree on your latter comment. With AC, you can create "loop like" effect by hooking up a capacitor or an inductor and have the current flow with practically no loss. You can NOT do that with AC.

As for the AC vs DC, what we're really looking at is direction of flow of energy, not polarity. My flow analogy holds valid in that if you were to connect a water heater to A/C, the energy transfer will always be from source to water. The electrical energy does not flow from heater to source.