Serious, valid consideration of the 'ground up or down' issue.

[Smart $]

Many areas mount them like this.

IMO design should not be an NEC issue.

Hmmm... I'm just seeing a picture placeholder, no picture.

 

[iwire]

Hmmm... I'm just seeing a picture placeholder, no picture.

Hmm, same here now. :?

Well, imagine a duplex mounted horizontally.

 

[K8MHZ]

Hmm, same here now. :?

Well, imagine a duplex mounted horizontally.

I have seen horizontally mounted receptacles. It's likely less than one percent, though. Also, the lion's share (that I have seen) are two prong in old, old homes mounted in the mop boards.

You are correct, since the NFPA is concerned with safety, this is a design issue and will remain one until someone gets hurt or killed. This was not a likely scenario until health care facilities started using receptacle mounted devices for crucial services.

Should the inability to operate a receptacle mounted device in a health care facility cause a death, and that death gets sufficient media coverage, I would like to think that this once taboo and un-discussable subject makes it's way into the NEC or the UL.

These little APC UPS's have the ability to wipe out a node should they fail. Since they also have buttons to push, failure may be induced by pushing the wrong button at the wrong time. If that node was actively carrying packets of info when it was dropped, those packets may not make their destination, or worse, make it with corrupted packets. Since nodes are just fancy repeaters, it is possible that corrupted information gets spread from node to node and may end up at the server station. The system carries all the info for all the facilities in our area. A few years ago every hospital, P.C. and clinic was bought out by a single hospital and now a single data system handles the data for everyone. Failure of that system would be catastrophic.

I think APC's designers need to be slapped hard for not offering the proper orientation for use in health care facilities. Next would be the guy that sold them to the hospitals.

I bit my tongue when I first noticed that my little plug in tester couldn't be read upside down. No problem, just use an extension cord.

But there are receptacle mounted surge suppressors made by Belkin that mount only one way, and that makes it impossible to correct with a cord. You just have to put up with the fact that the writing is upside down. Not a big deal, since there are only two words, one for each light, and the lights are different colors.

Then, I got the Kil-a-watt. That has buttons and a display, but can be used with a cord to make everything readable. So, still, no biggie.

Then, last Thursday, I saw the little UPS, upside down and not readable, used as back up power for a crucial system. For me, that was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. Now we go from conjecture and preference to a very real potential hazard.

I, for one, am not going to wait until the horse gets out of the barn. That is why I pointed this out to my doctor, posted here and am planning on discussing this with my sister and the safety manager of the hospital (he is a ham and I know him).

At least if nothing gets done I can say I tried. I can also hope that I have brought forth an awareness to our trade, via this site, that may prove in some small manner to be helpful.

Is there a fix? Sure, I would say that if a device is not operable due to receptacle orientation, it should not be UL approved. Especially for use in health care facilities.

 

[kwired]

Hmm, same here now. :?

Well, imagine a duplex mounted horizontally.

Picture showed up just fine for me. Flush grey 20 amp GFCI with stainless cover installed horizontally with an orange cord plugged into it.

 

[K8MHZ]

Picture showed up just fine for me. Flush grey 20 amp GFCI with stainless cover installed horizontally with an orange cord plugged into it.

Nothing, not even an icon, here.

Grey receptacle, stainless cover and an orange cord?

They really need to get a new interior decorator......

 

[hurk27]

I have seen horizontally mounted receptacles. It's likely less than one percent, though. Also, the lion's share (that I have seen) are two prong in old, old homes mounted in the mop boards.

You are correct, since the NFPA is concerned with safety, this is a design issue and will remain one until someone gets hurt or killed. This was not a likely scenario until health care facilities started using receptacle mounted devices for crucial services.

Should the inability to operate a receptacle mounted device in a health care facility cause a death, and that death gets sufficient media coverage, I would like to think that this once taboo and un-discussable subject makes it's way into the NEC or the UL.

These little APC UPS's have the ability to wipe out a node should they fail. Since they also have buttons to push, failure may be induced by pushing the wrong button at the wrong time. If that node was actively carrying packets of info when it was dropped, those packets may not make their destination, or worse, make it with corrupted packets. Since nodes are just fancy repeaters, it is possible that corrupted information gets spread from node to node and may end up at the server station. The system carries all the info for all the facilities in our area. A few years ago every hospital, P.C. and clinic was bought out by a single hospital and now a single data system handles the data for everyone. Failure of that system would be catastrophic.

I think APC's designers need to be slapped hard for not offering the proper orientation for use in health care facilities. Next would be the guy that sold them to the hospitals.

I bit my tongue when I first noticed that my little plug in tester couldn't be read upside down. No problem, just use an extension cord.

But there are receptacle mounted surge suppressors made by Belkin that mount only one way, and that makes it impossible to correct with a cord. You just have to put up with the fact that the writing is upside down. Not a big deal, since there are only two words, one for each light, and the lights are different colors.

Then, I got the Kil-a-watt. That has buttons and a display, but can be used with a cord to make everything readable. So, still, no biggie.

Then, last Thursday, I saw the little UPS, upside down and not readable, used as back up power for a crucial system. For me, that was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. Now we go from conjecture and preference to a very real potential hazard.

I, for one, am not going to wait until the horse gets out of the barn. That is why I pointed this out to my doctor, posted here and am planning on discussing this with my sister and the safety manager of the hospital (he is a ham and I know him).

At least if nothing gets done I can say I tried. I can also hope that I have brought forth an awareness to our trade, via this site, that may prove in some small manner to be helpful.

Is there a fix? Sure, I would say that if a device is not operable due to receptacle orientation, it should not be UL approved. Especially for use in health care facilities.

Generally a single node will only affect the computers off that node and not the whole system, I would believe that this is a local router or switch (hub) that is part of a local network for local systems to connect to the main switcher (hub) that forms part of the network for this area of this hospital.

I agree with that the UPS should not have been plugged in upside down, but I see a much more bigger problem if this connection is a life dependent connection, basically if this is life critical then it should not be a cord and plug connection, or at least located in a location where any passer by could snag the cord out of the receptacle, a cleaning staff could accidentally un-plug it to use a vacuum, so I would have more of a issue with this being a readily accessible plug then the fact it is upside down?
What say you?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Many areas mount them like this.

IMO design should not be an NEC issue.

For dwelling units in the Chicago area that would be upside down.

 

[iwire]

For dwelling units in the Chicago area that would be upside down.

 

[Smart $]

Picture showed up just fine for me. ...

Picture visible for me now. Bob likely linked it, so maybe its server was down.

Nothing, not even an icon, here.

...

If I recall correctly, there is a browser setting for showing picture placeholders.

 

[K8MHZ]

Generally a single node will only affect the computers off that node and not the whole system, I would believe that this is a local router or switch (hub) that is part of a local network for local systems to connect to the main switcher (hub) that forms part of the network for this area of this hospital.

I agree with that the UPS should not have been plugged in upside down, but I see a much more bigger problem if this connection is a life dependent connection, basically if this is life critical then it should not be a cord and plug connection, or at least located in a location where any passer by could snag the cord out of the receptacle, a cleaning staff could accidentally un-plug it to use a vacuum, so I would have more of a issue with this being a readily accessible plug then the fact it is upside down?
What say you?

I agree. I have wondered for years why patients were left alone in rooms where medical equipment, comm equipment included, could be unplugged by said patients or workers.

 

[hurk27]

I agree. I have wondered for years why patients were left alone in rooms where medical equipment, comm equipment included, could be unplugged by said patients or workers.

I guess because most don't want to commit suicide, and or if they are that bad off or on life support, they couldn't reach the receptacle or cord anyways?:?

 

[kwired]

Doesn't most equipment have a backup battery? If anything it allows the equipment to still operate while moving the patient or to ride through any kind of temporary power loss.

If a patient wants to commit suicide it is probably just as easy to disconnect themselves from equipment than to unplug the equipment from the power source. If they are known to be suicidal they probably are restrained and/or watched more carefully by the medical staff.

 

[iwire]

Doesn't most equipment have a backup battery?

I am certainly no expert but that has always seemed to be the case when I visited someone in the hospital.

 

[kwired]

I am certainly no expert but that has always seemed to be the case when I visited someone in the hospital.

I have a small town hospital that I do work for frequently. They have somewhat limited care, no surgical areas, but have an emergency room - can stabilize or provide necessary immediate care prior to transport to a better equipped facility, provide a lot of outpatient services, and do have maybe up to 20 inpatient beds that normally have patients that are not in too critical of a condition, like to finish recovery from a more intense procedure or treatment.


I don't know what all the equipment does that I have seen but can't recall anything that would not run off a battery while patient was being moved for any reason.

 

[sgunsel]

Most modern medical devices are continuously monitored at the nurses station, so there are alarms when disconnected or switched off.

 

[kwired]

Most modern medical devices are continuously monitored at the nurses station, so there are alarms when disconnected or switched off.

All I am aware of at this small hospital where I work sometimes is a heart monitor that is also monitored at nurse station.