Side Work

[satcom]

If that guy's boss wants to compete with "trunk slammers" then he needs to lower his overhead.

I love when people bash small one man shops (and call them "trunk slammers") and act as if they are doing something wrong by being a small contractor with little overhead. Oh, how unethical!

A one man shop without overhead is a trunk slammer, only in their mind are they in business, there is nothing wrong with operating a one man shop, but when they clain they have no or low overhead, watch out, you can bet they most likely don't have the proper insurances, or eniough coverage, and likely no benifits, or assets.
The sad part is not them taking the industry down, but cheating their family, by not operating a business for the long term.

 

[rich000]

Lot's of good responses here. Thank you.

My interpretation of "side work" would be using my employer's truck, tools, materials on a side job but keeping the money for myself.

My business is starting up and has it's own advertising, vehicle, tools, material, phone, etc.

I do not steal customers. i.e. "Hey customer, I can do it cheaper on my time." If a customer calls my business and I know if they are my employer's customer, I decline.

Any work is done on my free time, weekends, etc.

Thanks again for your views and opinions.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Lot's of good responses here. Thank you.

My interpretation of "side work" would be using my employer's truck, tools, materials on a side job but keeping the money for myself.

My business is starting up and has it's own advertising, vehicle, tools, material, phone, etc.

I do not steal customers. i.e. "Hey customer, I can do it cheaper on my time." If a customer calls my business and I know if they are my employer's customer, I decline.

Any work is done on my free time, weekends, etc.

Thanks again for your views and opinions.

Mr Clinton,

I believe your boss may feel doing electrical work other than for him is side work. It seems if his customers may call you for work, you are directly competing with your own employer. This is probably why he made it a condition of employment that you don't do it. He didn't ask you not to steal his gas and materials. He said no side work.

 

[jaylectricity]

It's pretty simple. You can not get contact info through your employer while on the clock.

On the off chance that a customer responds to both yours and your boss's advertising you should go to your boss and tell him the situation. Chances are you can make it work for the both of you. The two of you give the customer a price knowing full well what the other will be charging.

The customer will probably use those two opinions and go with one or the other. But then you shouldn't be the employee to do the job or the customer will smell the dirty fish.

You might not get the job, but the trust with your employer can go a long way in the future. Maybe he cuts somebody else's hours during a slow period while he pays you to clean his garage or work on his house.

 

[stevenj76]

When an established service electrician leaves a contractor with the red ass, and goes to a different contractor, and takes all his service account business with him,

That must be side work too.

Or when a PM switches contractors and takes a couple mil of work with him, this also must be what these guys call sidework.

Most contractors on here want everything in the world to go their way, if it works for them, it is called competition. If it does not work in their favor, it is unfair. Gawd, y'all are almost as bad as GC's.

 

[readydave8]

When an established service electrician leaves a contractor with the red ass, and goes to a different contractor, and takes all his service account business with him,

That must be side work too.

Or when a PM switches contractors and takes a couple mil of work with him, this also must be what these guys call sidework.

Most contractors on here want everything in the world to go their way, if it works for them, it is called competition. If it does not work in their favor, it is unfair. Gawd, y'all are almost as bad as GC's.

i almost could agree with this had it been phrased more tactfully

 

[bradleyelectric]

i almost could agree with this had it been phrased more tactfully

Tactfully or not I don't buy it. His employer made a condition of employment that you don't compete with him. I'm just not sure how someone can determine that to mean let me know if we are bidding on the same job or don't steal time.

To leave a contractor and call all his established service customers and tell them you don't work for the company anymore I believe would be in very poor taste. Your a technician and have no right to contact customers for any reason unless company policy states so.

If your a PM I'm not sure how you take a couple mil of work that is under contract without enacting suits on everyone involved.

None of what you stated has anything to do with side work.

Thanks for trolling.

 

[GUNNING]

When I started out I was working toward getting my state and local licenses. The forms for local and state both needed each others numbers to qualify them. Needless to say there was a lot of crossed mail from one state agency to the local county. In the mean time I got a job with a great commercial contractor. The job I started on had 3 master electricians, one helper and a journeyman running the job. Real relaxed.
I found out that the company knew I was in business when the supervisor and the owners son in law were talking and noticed I had an add in the local paper.
"Did you know he has an add???!! said the owners son in law. The supervisor said "Wish he would work for me!" It was a great time. lots of laughter. I wasn't a threat. I wasn't going out and bidding on 5 story commercial buildings and they new it. It was a good jumping off point when I realized my day job was interfering with my side work. It was pretty obvious to me when I was trying to get things done at 9 o'clock at night and couldn't see because it was dark. I wish I had stomped into the bosses office and said, Help me get this off the ground. Thats what I should have done.

Side work is OK if it doesn't interfere with your day job. Side work is OK if it doesn't conflict with your employers interests. You have to start somewhere.

 

[MJW]

It's pretty simple. You can not get contact info through your employer while on the clock.

On the off chance that a customer responds to both yours and your boss's advertising you should go to your boss and tell him the situation. Chances are you can make it work for the both of you. The two of you give the customer a price knowing full well what the other will be charging.

The customer will probably use those two opinions and go with one or the other. But then you shouldn't be the employee to do the job or the customer will smell the dirty fish.

You might not get the job, but the trust with your employer can go a long way in the future. Maybe he cuts somebody else's hours during a slow period while he pays you to clean his garage or work on his house.

I would be very careful doing this. It sounds a lot like bid rigging.

 

[highvolts582]

tip

tip

never steal customers from your boss you may need work again when your slow in buisness "just getting started". If he trusts you . Thats worth way more than a couple of weekend jobs. words to live by.

 

[jaylectricity]

I would be very careful doing this. It sounds a lot like bid rigging.

It is, and I wouldn't do it...I just posted that for the sake of this thread.

 

[infinity]

If that guy's boss wants to compete with "trunk slammers" then he needs to lower his overhead.

I love when people bash small one man shops (and call them "trunk slammers") and act as if they are doing something wrong by being a small contractor with little overhead. Oh, how unethical!

You and I have different definitions of a trunk slammer.

 

[glene77is]

... with little overhead.

Voltage,
I thought about the "overhead" several years back.
I ended up with two pensions, a 40 year old Van,
enough tools for two men, and it is all paid for.
I can brag about my overhead.

And, you are right. Low overhead does help.

 

[Ohmy]

How does the saying go "if your hired out to a man......"

IMO, sidework is bad, bad, bad. In all cases, the customer is getting a bad deal and the worker is taking a big time risk. Even in the remote circumstance when "sideworker" is "insured and insured" its a bad situation.


1. The worker is under capitalized so cannot handle or afford mistakes or miscommunications. Are you going to make a liability claim over $800 dispute?

2. The worker cannot afford to mess up because they have put their butt on the line and this job could cost them their rent. The worker will do disparate and shotty work to get the job done and get the check.

3. The worker lacks knowledge and cannot get help or advice immediately because he is generally being sneaky about his project. (that's why side workers love this board...they can't ask their boss.)

4. The worker lacks access to quality parts and materials and general buys from HD or lowes.

5. The worker does not control his own schedule so cannot come back the next morning or immediately respond to a call back. If they need to work late or come into work on a weekend, they are forced to cancel on the customer.

6. The worker has no backup if he needs help. So he takes risk and cuts corners.

7. The worker does not have ALL the tools necessary to do the job correctly so he cuts corners and takes risk. Uses a ladder to small or the wrong bit or the wrong tool for the application and the customer gets a less than perfect project or installation.

8. The workers have to come during odd hours or weekends because they have a day job. They are generally tired and wornout and distracted because their is someplace they are supposed to be (like home with their family).

9. The workers do not have stock vehicles so they need to make multiple trips to the local hardware store. This make even a small job take longer.

10. The worker does not have an account or someone to do his taxes so he cheats on his taxes.

11. The worker generally does not keep records of his job because its a "one off." There is no reference or evidence in the case of a dispute or fire.

12. If the worker moves, dies, changes his cell phone number, breaks a leg, goes to jail, joins the army, etc...the customers warranty is GONE.

13. The worker generally does not have forms or invoices so leaves the customer nothing for future home buyers or in case of a dispute.

14. Permits....psh please....

15. The worker has no clout or backing in case of a failure to pay. He generally has no signed invoice, no collection system, and no real way of applying pressure to get paid. Some people actively search out these small guys to take advantage of them. Ask anyone that's been in business more than a week. These customers FIND YOU.

16. The worker often runs the risk of getting fired for side working. Even if no one finds out, his work performance is hindered by his lack of sleep and constant cellphone use. This will put him behind when it comes to raises and ahead when it comes to firing.


So, there it is. You have taken a big time risk, given the customer a bad deal, and if you are lucky will walk about with a little cash. Its Vegas without the air fair.

BTW, being "licensed and Insured" company is a joke. I could open "Ohmy's Licensed and Insured Electrical" tomorrow morning with liability, business license, and insurance for less than $200 bucks. Licensed and Insured just doesn't mean anything these days.

 

[ramsy]

Licensed and Insured just doesn't mean anything these days.

Agreed, credit check & references from local AHJ's would be better than just Licensed and Insured, but owner builders avoiding permit fees and inspections rarely seek such credentials.

The question then becomes, for owner builders demanding it their way, should it be your SOB or some other illegal / hack / Craigslist urchen / that will be found for the work.

To mandate fines for avoiding permits or rewards for reporting permit offenders, I believe the historical precedent of owner-builder law would have to be overturned; CA CIV CODE ?7044 in my State predates the much later licensing laws.

The side worker is the contractor's SOB when encountering demands to improve property without permit fees & inspection, or other owner-builder rights in conflict with contractor-Licensing & Insurance policies.

 

[electricmanscott]

How does the saying go "if your hired out to a man......"

IMO, sidework is bad, bad, bad. In all cases, the customer is getting a bad deal and the worker is taking a big time risk. Even in the remote circumstance when "sideworker" is "insured and insured" its a bad situation.


1. The worker is under capitalized so cannot handle or afford mistakes or miscommunications. Are you going to make a liability claim over $800 dispute?

2. The worker cannot afford to mess up because they have put their butt on the line and this job could cost them their rent. The worker will do disparate and shotty work to get the job done and get the check.

3. The worker lacks knowledge and cannot get help or advice immediately because he is generally being sneaky about his project. (that's why side workers love this board...they can't ask their boss.)

4. The worker lacks access to quality parts and materials and general buys from HD or lowes.

5. The worker does not control his own schedule so cannot come back the next morning or immediately respond to a call back. If they need to work late or come into work on a weekend, they are forced to cancel on the customer.

6. The worker has no backup if he needs help. So he takes risk and cuts corners.

7. The worker does not have ALL the tools necessary to do the job correctly so he cuts corners and takes risk. Uses a ladder to small or the wrong bit or the wrong tool for the application and the customer gets a less than perfect project or installation.

8. The workers have to come during odd hours or weekends because they have a day job. They are generally tired and wornout and distracted because their is someplace they are supposed to be (like home with their family).

9. The workers do not have stock vehicles so they need to make multiple trips to the local hardware store. This make even a small job take longer.

10. The worker does not have an account or someone to do his taxes so he cheats on his taxes.

11. The worker generally does not keep records of his job because its a "one off." There is no reference or evidence in the case of a dispute or fire.

12. If the worker moves, dies, changes his cell phone number, breaks a leg, goes to jail, joins the army, etc...the customers warranty is GONE.

13. The worker generally does not have forms or invoices so leaves the customer nothing for future home buyers or in case of a dispute.

14. Permits....psh please....

15. The worker has no clout or backing in case of a failure to pay. He generally has no signed invoice, no collection system, and no real way of applying pressure to get paid. Some people actively search out these small guys to take advantage of them. Ask anyone that's been in business more than a week. These customers FIND YOU.

16. The worker often runs the risk of getting fired for side working. Even if no one finds out, his work performance is hindered by his lack of sleep and constant cellphone use. This will put him behind when it comes to raises and ahead when it comes to firing.


So, there it is. You have taken a big time risk, given the customer a bad deal, and if you are lucky will walk about with a little cash. Its Vegas without the air fair.

BTW, being "licensed and Insured" company is a joke. I could open "Ohmy's Licensed and Insured Electrical" tomorrow morning with liability, business license, and insurance for less than $200 bucks. Licensed and Insured just doesn't mean anything these days.

What a bunch of nonsense. Most of this can be applied to a "legitimate contractor".

If somebody wants to do whatever work they want why is it any of your business? By "your" I mean anybody that is against sidework.

As long as they follow the rules I don't give a crap what they do.

 

[bradleyelectric]

What a bunch of nonsense. Most of this can be applied to a "legitimate contractor".

If somebody wants to do whatever work they want why is it any of your business? By "your" I mean anybody that is against sidework.

As long as they follow the rules I don't give a crap what they do.

very true and agreed. That doesn't mean the list isn't true though. An awful lot of what people do as side work doesn't follow the rules though. Yes unfortunately that also applies to people that contract full time at the lower level of the pay range that don't charge enough to maintain proper insurance and other expenses. That does cast a dark cloud over the entire service sector of the industry.

 

[Ohmy]

What a bunch of nonsense. Most of this can be applied to a "legitimate contractor".

If somebody wants to do whatever work they want why is it any of your business? By "your" I mean anybody that is against sidework.

As long as they follow the rules I don't give a crap what they do.

1. What is not true about that post?

2. Yes, most of it can be applied to "legitimate contractors" which is why people need to start rethinking what it actually takes to be a legitimate contractor.

3. What type of people do electrical work is my business! Both literally and figuratively. Side Workers, low ballers, etc. hurt our business, our profession, our reputation, our wallet, etc. So, yes....I care. Why else would I take the time to post?

BTW, I realize that this conversation is offensive to many guys on this board but it doesn't make it nonsense.

 

[jaylectricity]

Agreed, credit check & references from local AHJ's would be better than just Licensed and Insured, but owner builders avoiding permit fees and inspections rarely seek such credentials.

So I suppose I should be giving random strangers my social security number to prove what, exactly?

 

[bradleyelectric]

So I suppose I should be giving random strangers my social security number to prove what, exactly?

I'm not sure the credit check issue needs to be giving your SS# to random strangers. 1 area around here requires a small bond in order to be licensed in the jurisdiction. That would require a credit check by the bonding agent. It would prove you have the ability to buy basic materials.