Slowing down the pace of work to put quality over quantity.

[cschmid]

When doing the job if you do it the correct way every time and bid your jobs accordingly why would you even entertain cutting corners. Your work is your reputation and your reputation is who you are and that is what keeps money coming in. Because if you are liked by the ones who pay your bills then you will be fine and remember you can not please everyone all the time.

 

[__dan]

http://www.amazon.com/Ragged-Trouse...&showViewpoints=1&qid=1296511938&sr=8-1-spell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ragged_Trousered_Philanthropists

This is an instance where the reviewers have it completely wrong, casting the book as socialist rather than from the author's own experience, spending his life as an artist, craftsman. His efforts rewarding him dying broke and buried in an unmarked grave. His heirs got zip as he sold the book copyright for nothing. The book was thought to be autobiographical with the names changed to protect himself from retribution.

From a skilled trade labor point of view the message is much simpler, high standards of work are very personal and the expense of producing this is more than the market is willing and able to pay. The excess capacity to produce great work is given away (philantropy) to be employed in the market and not profitably compensated. The capitalist does nothing without the promise of a profit.

How many of you have to have Metalux, Lithonia over Cresent, Easterm - SQ D, GE over Crouse Hinds, Westinghouse, Bryant - PVC pipe over SEU - Milbank over - EMT over MC - 3M Skotchlok, Ranger over Buchanan - steel fittings over die cast aluminum. These choices go uncompensated in the market, if the option to install cr&p is even a choice, so, are given away to meet the tradesman's personal standards. Higher quality material is frequently a labor saver but the low market price is set by the offer of crap. We've all seen it.

The message in the books is that these experiences are not unique but cycles that repeat through history, the history books with copyright dates before anyone was born are very current in their predictions.

http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-Hope-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296514282&sr=1-1

 

[BJ Conner]

You have a dial on the quality gague?

You have a dial on the quality gague?

I do not believe it is within the prerogative of a tradesman to determine what level of "quality" he should be providing.

That would seem to be the prerogative of the guy footing the bills.

Having said that, if you are working so fast that you are making lots of mistakes, I suggest you slow down enough that you stop making those kinds of mistakes, but understand that no one is perfect and no amount of slowing down will eliminate all mistakes.

IF the trademan can and does perform at different levels of quality-he/she is not really a trademan.
IF an owner wants a less costly job they can have it put in the plans and specificatioins. When it gets to the electrican it should be done according to the project documents. If it's not code compliant then the electrican is probably the first to notice ( most electricians know more about the code than most engineers) and the job should have a way to get it fixed.

Do you take your car to the garage or when you go in for a surgical proceedure say "back of your standards and do just what it takes to get by."

 

[satcom]

IF the trademan can and does perform at different levels of quality-he/she is not really a trademan.

Do you take your car to the garage or when you go in for a surgical proceedure say "back of your standards and do just what it takes to get by."

Yup! A real craftsman will always produce quality work

 

[__dan]

It had to be ~ 1991, there was no work for anyone. I had taken three identical group homes by being low.

I had one ready for finish, showed up late and without thinking about it walked into the center of the space, huge grinder in one hand huge coffee in the other. I stood there and enjoyed breakfast with the quiet commotion around me.

Not more than four minutes passed and the GC, Norman, was at my side. The time when Norm had a good rep was in the 1950's. He was probably less senile then too. I did not look down or at him, he starts talking: 'you know _dan, I would have liked to use my regular painter, Lou, but Lou was $4300., this guy was $2300. What could I do'.

I continued saying nothing, not looking down or at him, having my grinder. I looked around and there were a lot of painters there.

Norm walks away and not more than four minutes later the painting contractor was at my side. The guy looked like he could have been Norm's younger brother. He starts talking saying "You know I would have liked to get $4300. for this job but Norm says his regular guy will do it for $2300. What could I do." "Look at these guys, my son is here, they clean and prep the wood, they put on the right number of coats, good quality paint, I have everything on these guys, workman's comp, medical." "These guys have been with me a long time, I trained them, I have to keep them busy".

The painter I looked at but said nothing (must have been too early in the day for me). I looked around, he had good guys.

If there's a point to this, it escapes me. It's usually a funny story.

 

[LarryFine]

There's a saying in racing, "sometimes you have to slow down to go faster". If you're working fast and having to go back and fix it, you're not really accomplishing anything. I'm pretty lucky I guess, I've always been able to work fast and put out quality work and do it without killing myself, but I've also been at it for 35 years. There are also some guys you couldn't get to work fast if you stood over them with a whip.

I agree wholeheartedly. Plus, the busier I am, and the more I get done, the faster the day seems to go.

The feeling of accomplishment is the greatest part of our work. (The money does come in a close second. )

 

[mark32]

This is a topic that hits home for me. By nature I do not do things with a fast pace, at least not things that I enjoy doing. When I started in the trade (Residential old & new work) my pace was actually average but years later, when I began liking what I did, my focus shifted from just getting it done to "Hey, this is important and enjoyable work, I should do it in the best manner I can". The work became more like a hobby to me than work and like a hobby, one takes his time to do the best they can. Soon I would hear comments like, "Hey are you gonna marry that four gang box" or "Hey I'm going to set up a mailbox for you". I soon realized that I could never run my own business full time because of my pace (Not to mention I try to avoid stress), nor could I be a true asset to a residential contractor where time is a more critical element than let's say a large commercial job. Eventually I got a job doing electrical maintenance at an airport and it was a match made in heaven. I LOVED that job but after a year I had to move and now I'm at a HD but they treat me pretty good. I do miss the trade but I still lend a hand to two of my contractor friends (Former co workers) when they need it and yes they still bust my chops on my speed

 

[tryinghard]

If the goal is to eliminate busy or hurriedness one could succeed at this and be out of work. Slow could be helpful in quality but it's not going to make quality, this is the dichotomy, slow and wrong crew will make a bad application and take a long time to do it. Fast and quality are obtainable, right schedule, funding, tools, material, correct manpower...

 

[petersonra]

IF the trademan can and does perform at different levels of quality-he/she is not really a trademan.
IF an owner wants a less costly job they can have it put in the plans and specificatioins. When it gets to the electrican it should be done according to the project documents. If it's not code compliant then the electrican is probably the first to notice ( most electricians know more about the code than most engineers) and the job should have a way to get it fixed.

Do you take your car to the garage or when you go in for a surgical proceedure say "back of your standards and do just what it takes to get by."

Baloney. This is not about being code compliant. The thing has to be to code no matter what. That is a given. It is not up to the tradesman to decide how much money is going to be spent on a project, and the "quality" of a job is often directly related to how much money the guy footing the bills is willing to part with.

I see no reason to worry a whole lot about whether Romex or conduit is hung perfectly straight and neat where it is eventually going to be buried under drywall. It's just not worth the extra expense to me to pay for that.

And yes I do tell my mechanic to do it cheap as often as not. I use rebuilt or used parts to fix my car because they are cheaper. Its a used car, so how are used or rebuilt parts going to make it any less used? I also tell my doctor I would rather have generic medicines solely because they cost less. Most people do.

I see no reason to use conduit when Romex is adequate solely because an electrician thinks it is higher quality to do so. I would bet most people see it that way.

 

[patriot]

You have to remmember you can only do the best you can do to get the job done in a timely matter. You cannot sacrifice the quality work you do because it reflects on you as an individual.
I've ran work for 15 years. I beleve you work as hard as you can, do the best you can, and it will all come out in the wash. But I will always strive to be the best electrician I can be and so should you.
I admire your want to be the best you can be. Dont change that attitude and you will be fine.

 

[patriot]

It really depends on what type work you are doing and how many men are working on the job as to how much is time saved by doing higher quality work.

If you are working by yourself or with a helper then you don't want to go back and do any re-work so you need things done right the first time. It just cost to much to have to go back and repair jobs that are supposed to be finished.

On the other hand if it's a large job with a big crew and you can send one man back to take care of problems that are left by the whole crew then it may well be worth it. There is normally a bit of punch out work to do anyway. Normally the pay roll is so high for a large crew the idea is to get the number of men down on the job as soon as possible with the bulk of the work accomplished and any punch out done by a very small crew.

I disagree. It takes no longer to do the job right. Why not do it right the first time around?

 

[wireman]

This is the only example I could come up with and I'm still not sure it is the correct thing to do. See if this might be an example of what you're talking about:

One of my pet peeves is seeing a outdoor horizontal run of PVC conduit that has a minimum amount of straps on it and after a period of time and temperature extremes that have hit it the conduit is all wavy and bowed.

If the boss quoted enough hours and materal you can install more straps than the minimum required by the code which will result in a higher quality install & better looking job.

If the job was quoted very tightly and the customer has low expectations you may install only the minimum number of straps required by the code and make sure it is level & plumb at the time of install. What happens after you leave is then a result of the low price demanded by the customer.

 

[LarryFine]

What happens after you leave is then a result of the low price demanded by the customer.

A pair of pictures might do wonders when comparing prices.

 

[satcom]

A pair of pictures might do wonders when comparing prices.

When we called for quotes on vinyl siding one of the companies presented pictures of both good jobs and budget jobs.

 

[growler]

On the other hand if it's a large job with a big crew and you can send one man back to take care of problems that are left by the whole crew then it may well be worth it. There is normally a bit of punch out work to do anyway. Normally the pay roll is so high for a large crew the idea is to get the number of men down on the job as soon as possible with the bulk of the work accomplished and any punch-out done by a very small crew.

I disagree. It takes no longer to do the job right. Why not do it right the first time around?

It would really be nice if everything were done right the first time but with a large crew of 20-50 men on a job it normally is not going to happen. So you can slow things down and shoot for top quality or you can drive the men like sled dogs and then do punch-out with a much smaller crew after the bulk of the work is accomplished.

This is just the ways things have been done for years and it does keep total man hours down.

I have lost a couple of jobs for concentrating to much on quality and not pushing hard enough for production.

 

[jmellc]

I've fought this battle many times. I take pride in quality work too. I've never been the fastest person around, just the way I'm wired. Some guys work faster & do similar quailty. Some whiz through, but everything is slop. I've had the same foreman shout at me for being slow, then seek me out later, asking me to redo a project someone else bungled by working too fast.

1 co. I worked with had about 100 feet of a rack to fall down with several large conduits, full of wire. Someone didn't have needed large washers & anchored some hanger rods with toggle bolts. A hard wire pull was almost complete when the strain was too much & the racks started falling, 1 after another.

We should work as fast as we can, but we should not cut corners to that degree. I can ignore cosmetics if I have to, such as slightly crooked run where not in sight, stuff like that.

 

[LarryFine]

I've had the same foreman shout at me for being slow, then seek me out later, asking me to redo a project someone else bungled by working too fast.

I hope you took advantage and had a little conversation to avoid the shouting in the future, if for no other reason.

 

[masterinbama]

If you don't have the time to do it right the first time, odds are you won't find the time to do it over.

That said as was said on large jobs, the trick to speed is finding men that work well together then find their strength. The advantage there is they know each others little tricks. Like the first one I would teach my helper on a big job about conduit spacing. Measure to the first one and space the rest from there with the nose of your Kleins between the strut straps. On 1-1/4 and bigger turn them side ways to get the extra space needed for lock nuts. It doesn't take long and you know what a each size pipe plus you pliers adds or subtracts depending on what you are bending around.

 

[readydave8]

Toyotas cost more than Fords. Toyota uses process control while Ford relies on quality control.

 

[readydave8]

Toyotas cost more than Fords. Toyota uses process control while Ford relies on quality control.