Solid vs. Stranded....

[quogueelectric]

I hate stranded wire. If you cant pull solid 12 in that is just sad.

 

[rustyryan34]

I hate stranded wire. If you cant pull solid 12 in that is just sad.

Yeh stranded wire around outlets sucks

 

[peter d]

Yeh stranded wire around outlets sucks

Which is exactly why I use the BR (backwired - not to be confused with the resi grade "stab in" connection) receptables

 

[jeffhornsby]

stranded has more resistance due to skin effect not much with your smaller wires but that might be why

 

[jrannis]

stranded has more resistance due to skin effect not much with your smaller wires but that might be why

Stranded wire has way more surface area than solid wire. I believe the theory is that electron flow is conducted on the outside of the wire.

As far as solid vs stranded, I would choose stranded, its easy to pull and manage inside of a junction box. I have never had a problem terminating a device with stranded wire, in fact as far as service calls go, I find more loose and shorted solid wire than stranded by far.
Seems like people twist solid together and put a wirenut on them and dont see the one that sneaks out of the twist. Also, #12 solid on a screw seems to want to back its self off.
I really didnt use much solid wire until they let us use MC cable in Miami.

 

[jim dungar]

Stranded wire has way more surface area than solid wire. I believe the theory is that electron flow is conducted on the outside of the wire.

Scientific fact: Skin effect is meaningless at 60Hz for conductors smaller than 300kCMIL.

This is as bad an urban legend as "current takes the path of least resistance".

Yes, skin effect may be an issue with small diameter conductors at higher frequencies. But changing a circular conductor from solid to stranded does not negate skin effect the same way that it would going to a flat conductor. Also if stranding actually created many individual conductors then the proximity effect would also be increased.

 

[kenaslan]

Installation is faster with str. Remember time is money, less problems in the long run with solid, but in EC most jobs life span of less then 10 years before a remodel one does not need to think about a 30+ life span. One can out pull with ease several str wires in a conduit run with 3 90's than one can pull solid. hence the savings of solid wire over str is long lost. As a former feild electrican of 25 years I HATED pulling solid. Never saw an only back wired recp in comm anyway, only res.

 

[ptonsparky]

Last time I bought 12 solid it was for marking an underground water line. Everything else is stranded with exception of 6 & 4 bare cu. Way easier to work with. I also get to sell a lot of LFV-1010Qs.

 

[emahler]

well, we have an RFI submitted and am awaiting a response from the engineers. I am incredibly curious as to what their reasoning is. Hopefully they will respond.

 

[ultramegabob]

the only time I use solid in commercial is M.C. cable, stranded is worth the extra money when pulling through conduit, there was a job I was on once that was specified all conduit and solid wire on all devices, so we pulled stranded in the long runs to j-boxes and fingerd out to recepts with solid.

 

[rook81108]

bbaumer, that's the point...what's the difference and why are they so adamant about using solid....when using back wired spec devices, the pressure plates actually make a better connection to stranded in my opinion....also, stranded #10 is easier to work with than solid #10....

i'm just not understanding the logic, if there is any....

The backwire devices are more than superior, they are all I use in industry and home. However, when they are not available I am convinced solid wires are practically and personally required to terminate all side wire devices (cheap skates). Crimp on lugs are not easily tucked into the box (they add 5/8" min) and allow another surface to corrode or installation to fail. To put rings on you must remove a screw that was meant to never be fully removed and to use fork terminals.......duh!...no.

 

[steelersman]

I love them also. I can't tell you how many service calls I get from you EC's that use the pop ins. You keep me employed. Thanks.:grin:

If people would just strip the correct amount of insulation and insert the conductor all the way they will never pop out on their own.

 

[steelersman]

Your pretty brave admitting that :grin:

I truly feel that there is nothing wrong with them if used properly and following the strip guage(stripping enough insulation off) and pushing the wire all the way in = no problems.

 

[steelersman]

The reality is there are probably a gazillion backwired devices out there and while there certainly are failures I (and the UL obviously agrees) don't think it is really an issue.

you said it brother and I couldn't agree more

 

[LarryFine]

I truly feel that there is nothing wrong with them if used properly and following the strip guage(stripping enough insulation off) and pushing the wire all the way in = no problems.

Maybe and maybe not. Heat does weaken the springiness of metal, which allows more heat, which weakens the metal more, etc.
It snowballs much like small gauge aluminum conductors.

It's the cycling of current that produces a heat-cool repeating cycle, which is the major cause of self-loosening connections, moreso with aluminum.

 

[sparky 134]

I've never had a problem terminating stranded onto a device. Just leave an inch or so of insulation on the end of the wire to control any fraying.

Solid is a PITA to pull, IMO.

 

[APavlatos]

Howdy fellas, I am a new guy here just looking around. I do have this to add to the conversation; stranded is a huge labor saver when it comes to pulling branch wire, f/e #10-#12 etc. Whatever pennies you save buying solid over stranded is eaten up in labor plus some. My first move after I sign a contract is to submit a letter of substitution (if solid CU is specified) and try to sub it. Also, I have never (knock on wood) had to pull skinned str. out of a pipe, I have however, had to replace solid. :wink:

 

[LarryFine]

Howdy fellas, I am a new guy here just looking around.

Welcome to the corral, pardner!

Ultra's idea of pulling stranded and pigtailing with solid should satisfy everyone.

 

[APavlatos]

Welcome to the corral, pardner!

Thank you!

 

[cschmid]

Hey I love those stab in outlets and switches for residential. You can only use them for 14 guage not 12 but they are awesome IMHO. I've never had a problem with them. I've never had one pop out on me. They're great. I know commercial guys tend to think they are crap but they are huge timesavers.

make note to never hire backstabber..:grin: