Spa GFCI Breaker Tripping

[kwired]

T.M.Haja Sahib

Does your country allow and do suppliers sell a GFCI wall outlet or breaker that protects people that has an adjustable trip for GF.

As others state we don't, Maybe this is the confusion.

Nothing is intended to be adjusted. All there is for user is test and reset, and on - off on circuit breaker type.

If they were adjustable I'll be willing to bet that about 99% of all installed units would be set at maximum setting making the adjustment pointless anyway.

 

[stew]

I had the exact same problem with a tub once and I finally got around to in depth troubleshooting I found the Heater element on the spa was bad. It had corroded to the point that when I pulled it it dang near fell apart. Installed a new element and havent heard from them now in2 years.

 

[kwired]

I had the exact same problem with a tub once and I finally got around to in depth troubleshooting I found the Heater element on the spa was bad. It had corroded to the point that when I pulled it it dang near fell apart. Installed a new element and havent heard from them now in2 years.

So you know next time - if GFCI is tripping on a spa element is first thing to check and usually easy to check. Even without a meter you can unhook element and then turn it on - what tripped immediately before does not trip at all.

 

[Jraef]

The GFCI may be replaced with one of lower sensitivity,with due care not to compromise safety.

GFCIs are not the same here as elsewhere in the world. We have two classes, one for personnel protection, one for equipment protection. if you have equipment or circuits where people are around water, you can only use the personnel protection type and there are no choices or adjustments available.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

GFCIs are not the same here as elsewhere in the world. We have two classes, one for personnel protection, one for equipment protection. if you have equipment or circuits where people are around water, you can only use the personnel protection type and there are no choices or adjustments available.

The GFCI used in the present case has a tolerance of 5mA +/- 1mA.So its 'true' tripping current may lie in the range of 4mA to 6mA.Suppose the actual tripping current lies within that range.What can be done now?Suppose the GFCI used in the present case is tripping at an actual leakage current of 4.5mA (This may be checked with a fluke clip on ammeter of suitable accuracy or by a GFI tester).Suppose also that it has been ascertained that there is no danger to life for the value of leakage current up to 6mA.If so,then this tripping GFCI may be replaced with a 'special' new one which would trip above 6mA only,provided the manufacturer is able to supply such one.

 

[iwire]

How about we actually fix the dangerous condition instead of trying to find a way to circumvent the protection?


Also all class A GFCIs are built to the same standards, you cannot order one with a specific 6ma trip.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

The GFCI used in the present case has a tolerance of 5mA +/- 1mA.So its 'true' tripping current may lie in the range of 4mA to 6mA.Suppose the actual tripping current lies within that range.What can be done now?Suppose the GFCI used in the present case is tripping at an actual leakage current of 4.5mA (This may be checked with a fluke clip on ammeter of suitable accuracy or by a GFI tester).Suppose also that it has been ascertained that there is no danger to life for the value of leakage current up to 6mA.If so,then this tripping GFCI may be replaced with a 'special' new one which would trip above 6mA only,provided the manufacturer is able to supply such one.

Ha. Your posts are so absurd they are actually entertaining.

There's obviously a problem if the GFI is tripping and even if your improbable theory were true, in this case I would suspect the problem to get worse.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

How about we actually fix the dangerous condition instead of trying to find a way to circumvent the protection?

I already remarked a safety audit should be conducted before allowing for an increase in leakage current brought on,for example,by an increase in conductors length.........

Also all class A GFCIs are built to the same standards, you cannot order one with a specific 6ma trip.

Since the manufacturer may find the exact tripping leakage current of individual GFCI during the routine test of each GFCI in their factory,they may be able to supply one with necessary certificate to that effect,provided you make friends with them.......

 

[iwire]

I already remarked a safety audit should be conducted before allowing for an increase in leakage current brought on,for example,by an increase in conductors length.........

And the problem fixed, not change the protection. But you are funny.

Since the manufacturer may find the exact tripping leakage current of individual GFCI during the routine test of each GFCI in their factory,they may be able to supply one with necessary certificate to that effect,provided you make friends with them.......

Oh you are so smart, I can't believe you hang out with us.

You will not get such a certificate for a GFCI.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

And the problem fixed, not change the protection. But you are funny.

It is about changing the protection level.You are funny too.

You will not get such a certificate for a GFCI.

I can't believe you can be that pessimistic.:happysad:

 

[ramsy]

T.M., I tried that last week during a trouble call. Found outdoor fountain tripping GFCI. Customer did not believe fountain was the problem, so I made him watch the GFCI while I plugged in the fountain. When he saw the GFCI trip immediately, he said the GFCI is bad. So, I replaced his GFCI with a new one from my truck, and plugged in the fountain again. This time we both watched for about a minute before the new GFCI tripped.

The new GFCI took longer to trip, but did not fix the problem. The problem was not fixed until after I installed a new fountain pump, all other outdoor loads on the same GFCI-protected circuit were turned on, stayed on, and the customer saw that his GFCI did not trip.

 

[iwire]

It is about changing the protection level.You are funny too.

Yes, reducing the protection instead of fixing the problem.

I can't believe you can be that pessimistic.:happysad:

Not a pessimist, just telling you a fact that you do not seem to know.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Yes, reducing the protection instead of fixing the problem.

Suppose the OP's problem is due to unavoidable long length of circuit wires and the total leakage current proves to be within 4 mA to 6 mA.What do you propose to do ?

 

[iwire]

Suppose the OP's problem is due to unavoidable long length of circuit wires and the total leakage current proves to be within 4 mA to 6 mA.What do you propose to do ?

Without much thought two ideas come come to mind.

• Move the GFCI protection closer to the load.
• Replace the existing conductors with conductors with better insulation.

By the way, I have been working with GFCIs for about 30 years now and I have never had one trip due to conductor length alone, there was always contributing factors such as water or compromised insulation.

But I know you care how much experience someone has you will continue with your nonsensical advice. :thumbsup:

 

[ptonsparky]

Generaly the GFCI protection is at the spa or very close to it.

I would hate to even think of being the one that installed this hot tub, or worse being the one that knowingly modified it in any way.
http://www.kearneyhub.com/news/local/article_b8eded86-468e-11e1-b512-0019bb2963f4.html.

You must live in an ideal world where a customer is willing and able pay for every conceivable remedy that ignores the obvious problem, plus have the unending support of vendors that are willing to go through millions of their product to find just the "one" that will work for you.

 

[ptonsparky]

Now back to the OP.

Ravenvalor, did you find your problem?

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

I have never had one trip due to conductor length alone, there was always contributing factors such as water or compromised insulation.

Fit for polling...

 

[kwired]

And the problem fixed, not change the protection. But you are funny.




Oh you are so smart, I can't believe you hang out with us.

You will not get such a certificate for a GFCI.

It is about changing the protection level.You are funny too.




I can't believe you can be that pessimistic.:happysad:

Finding the cause for the tripping is usually going to cost less and be a lot faster than getting any certificate for what the exact level of protection is.

Plus the problem will likely get worse eventually causing the whole process to start over. At some point you will need more than 6mA of protection to keep it from tripping - but you are past the intended safety level that GFCI is intended for.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Plus the problem will likely get worse eventually causing the whole process to start over. At some point you will need more than 6mA of protection to keep it from tripping - but you are past the intended safety level that GFCI is intended for.

Even in a 'normal' electrical installation the leakage current gradually increases over time.......
If the rate of rise of the leakage current is faster in the present case, than that in a 'normal' electrical installation,it would become a ground fault or a short circuit faster......

 

[iwire]

Even in a 'normal' electrical installation the leakage current gradually increases over time.......
If the rate of rise of the leakage current is faster in the present case, than that in a 'normal' electrical installation,it would become a ground fault or a short circuit faster......

Which would be a sign of conductor or equipment failure and time for repair. It is not the time to reduce the protection to the persons in the spa.