Top-Secret Task Force

[bphgravity]

Has anyone heard if the "top-secret task force on grounding and bonding terminology" has submitted a proposal or has at least recommended the changing of the terminology and definitons for the 2008 NEC?

Has anyone heard anything about the 2008 NEC?

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Yes, I have heard. One of the panel 5 members said that the TCC was going make the prposals to clear it up, but then I heard last week that that has been decided against. Panel 5 is meeting as we speak in South Carolina. Mike is at the meeting, and I will talk with him about it later on this week.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Thanks for the update!

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

I just had a 90 minute phone conversation with Mike regarding the 2008 cycle. It seems that all of the radical changes that people were expecting is not going to happen, however, some intersting things have occured. For example, the definition of ground is being changed to simply be "the earth". I think that is good. We didn't talk a lot of details about it, however.

But...are you ready for this? Mike came up with an idea and I wrote a proposal to delete the allowance of the nuetral to bond a remote structure. In other words, delete 250.32(B)(2) and all references to it.......it passed.

[ January 20, 2006, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Wow! That clears up that issue, that's for sure. I guess we will see how it makes it through the comment stage.

So ground is now "the earth"? So when to code says ground a box or ground a switch it means it needs to be buried? Whats the cover required for this?

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by ryan_618:
the definition of ground is being changed to simply be "the earth".

So Ryan, you're saying:

Ground. A conducting connection, whether intentional or accidental, between an electrical circuit or equipment and the earth or to some conducting body that serves in place of the earth.

becomes:

Ground. The earth.

???????????????

 

[sandsnow]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:

Ground. The earth.

???????????????

Finally, a grounding concept everyone can understand.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Well...it beats "some conducting body that serves the place of earth", doesn't it?

 

[sandsnow]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by ryan_618:
Well...it beats "some conducting body that serves the place of earth", doesn't it?

Yes it does. I always thought that phrase was to pull in 250.34 where the frame of the generator serves as the electrode. Who knows??

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by ryan_618:
I just had a 90 minute phone conversation with Mike regarding the 2008 cycle.

So he's got spies, or he's sitting in?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Ryan,

Mike came up with an idea and I wrote a proposal to delete the allowance of the nuetral to bond a remote structure. In other words, delete 250.32(B)(2) and all references to it.......it passed.

I will support that change as soon as we start using an EGC from the utility transformer or as soon as someone can explain why the electrons change their behavior after they pass the service disconnect.
Don

 

[hurk27]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Hey Ryan since you are in the know have ya heard anything on my "310.15(B)(2) add Exception 6"?

 

[jbwhite]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by ryan_618:
For example, the definition of ground is being changed to simply be "the earth". I think that is good.

Does this mean we will have an "equipment earthing conductor" This sounds like it will confuse the fact that the fault path during a short is back to the transformer, not the earth.

Originally posted by ryan_618:
In other words, delete 250.32(B)(2) and all references to it.......it passed.

Does this mean that all detached buildings will need a full size equipment ground, or be required to be run in metal conduit?

 

[jbwhite]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Why do they call this the Top Secret Task Force?

This must be some kind of spoof.

 

[iwire]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
I will support that change as soon as we start using an EGC from the utility transformer or as soon as someone can explain why the electrons change their behavior after they pass the service disconnect.
Don

I hope your not holding your breath.

However I certainly can agree with your position.

I wonder what the safety reason was for this possible change was?

Ryan?

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by bphgravity:
Has anyone heard anything about the 2008 NEC?

I had a conversation with a member of a CMP yesterday afternoon that corroborated Ryan's report of the change in the definition of Ground.

I also learned three additional nuggets. </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All 15 and 20 A 125 V receptacles are to be tamper-resistant.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All 15 and 20 A 120 V single phase branch circuits are to have AFCI.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All nondwelling outside outlets are to be GFCId, dropping the reference to "public".</font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This comes from a quick conversation, so the full nuance of the exact language was not quoted to me. What I'm stating is the gist of the change.

 

[iwire]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
I also learned three additional nuggets. </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All 15 and 20 A 125 V receptacles are to be tamper-resistant.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All 15 and 20 A 120 V single phase branch circuits are to have AFCI.</font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

:roll:

[ January 21, 2006, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Price some tamper resistant receptacles and you will see what I mean.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

I rolled my eyes and kicked my head back in exasperation, and he chuckled.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Top-Secret Task Force

Mark Ode will be in town next weekend and I will be going out to dinner with him after his seminar. I hope he will let us in on some of the juicier topics that he is aware of!