Troubleshooting
- Thread starter midget
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Re: Troubleshooting
a few tips:
1. Outlet not working: alway check continuity between Neutral and Ground. This will help with knowing that the circuit goes all the way back to the panel: which is where they are connected
2. Have a short in a circuit that originates from a fuse panel? Screw a regular base light bulb in place of the fuse, when the light goes out you've found your short. Warning: Look out for the neutral load when doing this.
3. Half of circuit out? Always check high demand area's first...Locations such as Behind entertainment centers, Ironing locations, ect.
If the wires are Stab-locked- reterminate on screws while you have the outlet out of the wall.
4. Never leave a job without showing the customer that the problem has been fixed.
a few tips:
1. Outlet not working: alway check continuity between Neutral and Ground. This will help with knowing that the circuit goes all the way back to the panel: which is where they are connected
2. Have a short in a circuit that originates from a fuse panel? Screw a regular base light bulb in place of the fuse, when the light goes out you've found your short. Warning: Look out for the neutral load when doing this.
3. Half of circuit out? Always check high demand area's first...Locations such as Behind entertainment centers, Ironing locations, ect.
If the wires are Stab-locked- reterminate on screws while you have the outlet out of the wall.
4. Never leave a job without showing the customer that the problem has been fixed.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Troubleshooting
Great tips John.
I use your #1 all the time, it tells you right away if you have big problems or small problems.
Great tips John.
I use your #1 all the time, it tells you right away if you have big problems or small problems.
harborrick
Member
- Location
- Irvine California
Re: Troubleshooting
Always ask why.
What was the last thing you remember doing when power went out?
Start from the center of circuit and try to clear working back either way.
Use common sense first and if that doesn't work think the impossible.
Always ask why.
What was the last thing you remember doing when power went out?
Start from the center of circuit and try to clear working back either way.
Use common sense first and if that doesn't work think the impossible.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Troubleshooting
How good one is at trouble shooting depends on electrical background and theory along with exsperiance.It's not something all electricians can do.Some are A 1 perfect men that can wire anything new ,look great and pass every code but that same man is not cut out to do trouble shooting.You will not learn this overnight or even in a few years.
How good one is at trouble shooting depends on electrical background and theory along with exsperiance.It's not something all electricians can do.Some are A 1 perfect men that can wire anything new ,look great and pass every code but that same man is not cut out to do trouble shooting.You will not learn this overnight or even in a few years.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Troubleshooting
Sometimes what helps when working on something that someone less experienced wired: Imagine that someone totally insane wired it. It opens up the mental permutations considerably.
Sometimes what helps when working on something that someone less experienced wired: Imagine that someone totally insane wired it. It opens up the mental permutations considerably.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Troubleshooting
I find that Ohm's law is a big help. For some reason people tend to forget it when they start troubleshooting electrical problems.
a little very basic electrical theory goes a long way some times.
I find that Ohm's law is a big help. For some reason people tend to forget it when they start troubleshooting electrical problems.
a little very basic electrical theory goes a long way some times.
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: Troubleshooting
Use the tools that are at your disposal.
I receive many calls from electricians that want to know why a particular device might not be working on a machine. These machines are PLC controlled. 90+% of the time, when I ask if the PLC output has been signaling or if power is getting to the device, they don't know! For some reason, they immediately assume the problem comes from the PLC programming. I call this the "Black Box Syndrome".
The PLC, with its status lights, can be a wonderful tool that can help isolate a problem particularly because it is in the center of the circuit between the sensors and the output devices. Knowing that the controller is sending a signal has already cut the circuit in half. Learn how to use those LEDs. This holds true for most electronic equipment from VFDs to Servo controls.
Unless there has been a power surge that may have damaged something, my experience has shown that the last place to look for a problem is in the programming.
Bob
Use the tools that are at your disposal.
I receive many calls from electricians that want to know why a particular device might not be working on a machine. These machines are PLC controlled. 90+% of the time, when I ask if the PLC output has been signaling or if power is getting to the device, they don't know! For some reason, they immediately assume the problem comes from the PLC programming. I call this the "Black Box Syndrome".
The PLC, with its status lights, can be a wonderful tool that can help isolate a problem particularly because it is in the center of the circuit between the sensors and the output devices. Knowing that the controller is sending a signal has already cut the circuit in half. Learn how to use those LEDs. This holds true for most electronic equipment from VFDs to Servo controls.
Unless there has been a power surge that may have damaged something, my experience has shown that the last place to look for a problem is in the programming.
Bob
John Valdes
Senior Member
- Location
- SC.
- Occupation
- Retired Electrician
Are you needing help with residential, commercial or industrial? If you are asking for troubleshooting hints on industrial machinery or power systems, always look for the obvious first if possible. I can't tell you how many hours I have spent looking in the wrong place's to find out that I was staring at the problem all along. Also, do not be afraid to call or ask someone. Why troubleshoot all day when a 5 minute conversation with someone familiar with your problem could point you in the right direction. The theory "well it was this or that last time" is of no use. Find your problem yourself. get the drawings (IF YOU CAN) and dig in. You will learn alot.
allenwayne
Senior Member
I also use #1 the most. Also #2 on dead shorts but lets amend #2 to include #2a pgtail socket with a bulb inline between the breaker and the affected circuit.
What you need to look for takes time to learn,Is it new construction,existing.Each have thier own things to look for.The best advice I could give anyone starting out troubleshooting is stop and think before you act.I`ve seen guys have an entire circuit taken apart and standing there scratching there heads.But they swear there has to be a cut wire !!!!!!!!!
OK what about that 18 ft of wall without a receptacle DOUHHHHHHHH
What you need to look for takes time to learn,Is it new construction,existing.Each have thier own things to look for.The best advice I could give anyone starting out troubleshooting is stop and think before you act.I`ve seen guys have an entire circuit taken apart and standing there scratching there heads.But they swear there has to be a cut wire !!!!!!!!!
OK what about that 18 ft of wall without a receptacle DOUHHHHHHHH
It looks as thought you received from great responses, the only thing I would like to add is:
Take the emotion out of equation. I see guys going into a troubleshooting situation and instantly think the worst. Not knowing is scary to some degree, don't let it be. Always start with the fundamentals 9 times out of 10 it will end there.
ed
Take the emotion out of equation. I see guys going into a troubleshooting situation and instantly think the worst. Not knowing is scary to some degree, don't let it be. Always start with the fundamentals 9 times out of 10 it will end there.
ed
When troubleshooting branch circuits, I find it helpful to open up a box that I guess would be in the "middle" of the circuit, disconnect all the wiring, then turn the circuit on and see if 1/2 of it works. This will cut your problem area in half very quickly. Once you have done that, repeat this process on the 1/2 of the circuit with the problem and now you are down to 1/4 of the circuit to troubleshoot. Helps find the bad connection in a resi branch circuit very quickly.
Good Luck
Good Luck
When troubleshooting anything, I always ask questions of the person who reported it to me, then I start at the problem. If a machine is not doing something then I'd check at the equipment that should be operating it, ie checking a solenoid for power, then tracing the circuit back if I have no power to find why. I use logic to troubleshoot.
I worked with one electrician who, whenever he came across a problem he had no clue about where to start, it was always check the main fuses and work his way forward and some of these where proximity problems feeding to a PLC
I worked with one electrician who, whenever he came across a problem he had no clue about where to start, it was always check the main fuses and work his way forward
and some of these where proximity problems feeding to a PLC
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
The first thing I ask is " Did your husband touch anything?" :smile: You would not believe the calls we get for a HO that tried to change out a receptacle and somehow magically nothing worked after he was done...
Knowing how the device/equipment etc. is suppose to operate is a big help. I try to study the prints. Then using the print its a process of checking what's working. Knowing how something is suppose to be wiried,you can tell right away if its not wired correctly. I picture in my mind how it should be and what it is doing or not doing. Get as much information as you can. Where do the wires go, where is the begining and end. I idenify all the wires in a box if I can.
On troubleshooting machines, you need to listen to the operator very closely and try to pull information about the problem out of him. Sometimes the smallest problem that the operator thinks is normal could send you in the right direction to repair an intermittent problem.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
1 You can move equipment to a different circuit and see if the problems follows or stays. If it follows the move then suspect the equipment
2. Isolate into smaller segments and keep dividing until you find the fault
3. Ask- call the tech support line
4. Stop, sit down and read the manual.
5. If you swap out equipment, do you know the replacement is good?
When you troubleshoot, its a vastly different technique than being a wireman. You go from a big screwdriver to reading a manual and thinking. Most of the equipment I work on requires a laptop and computer savvy.
Some manuals are good, some excellent, some worthless.
I read the manual, read the help files and if that does not get it, I call the tech line.
2. Isolate into smaller segments and keep dividing until you find the fault
3. Ask- call the tech support line
4. Stop, sit down and read the manual.
5. If you swap out equipment, do you know the replacement is good?
When you troubleshoot, its a vastly different technique than being a wireman. You go from a big screwdriver to reading a manual and thinking. Most of the equipment I work on requires a laptop and computer savvy.
Some manuals are good, some excellent, some worthless.
I read the manual, read the help files and if that does not get it, I call the tech line.
Like edamico 11 says, a lot of times you will be thinking too far out, assuming the worst, and you will not see the simple and obvious.
A perfect example, I was called to a ranch to trouble shoot a remote controlled roping chute that was working intermittently. A previous sparky had been there twice, and had even installed a new, costly circuit board. The problem persisted, and the sparky threw up his hands and told the customer they would have to find someone experienced with roping chutes.
Even though I had never touched a roping chute in my life, they called me out to try my luck. The problem turned out to be a simple power strip, the kind you use on your computer. They had set one up inside the machine to plug in the LV transformer and some other stuff. It had a loose connection where the power cord was soldered in.
The circuit boards and electronic gizmos scared the other guy off because he was thinking too hard.
A perfect example, I was called to a ranch to trouble shoot a remote controlled roping chute that was working intermittently. A previous sparky had been there twice, and had even installed a new, costly circuit board. The problem persisted, and the sparky threw up his hands and told the customer they would have to find someone experienced with roping chutes.
Even though I had never touched a roping chute in my life, they called me out to try my luck. The problem turned out to be a simple power strip, the kind you use on your computer. They had set one up inside the machine to plug in the LV transformer and some other stuff. It had a loose connection where the power cord was soldered in.
The circuit boards and electronic gizmos scared the other guy off because he was thinking too hard.
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