Union ?

[Ken9876]

I?m going to tread carefully here because I?d like an answer. I work for the state as an inspector for the DOT, recently on one of the jobs I was overseeing I had Iron Workers, state employed electricians, laborers and an operator for a crane. We were replacing a damaged traffic signal structure on a draw bridge. The iron workers were onsite to construct the steel portion of the structure that is attached to the bridge steel. It was agreed by myself and the project manager from our maintenance contractor that oversees the laborers and iron workers that the state electricians would be using their aerial equipment to install the clamps that hold the arm (a job they do every day). One of the Iron workers informed me he could shut the job down because he felt the electricians were doing iron work. Is this a common occurrence? And does he have the authority to shut the job down?

 

[iwire]

We generally do not allow union questions but I think we can let this one go as long as we stick to facts.


Any 'bashing' or 'flaming' posts will be removed, thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Ken9876]

We generally do not allow union questions but I think we can let this one go as long as we stick to facts.


Any 'bashing' or 'flaming' posts will be removed, thank you for your cooperation.

Thank you

 

[infinity]

I?m going to tread carefully here because I?d like an answer. I work for the state as an inspector for the DOT, recently on one of the jobs I was overseeing I had Iron Workers, state employed electricians, laborers and an operator for a crane. We were replacing a damaged traffic signal structure on a draw bridge. The iron workers were onsite to construct the steel portion of the structure that is attached to the bridge steel. It was agreed by myself and the project manager from our maintenance contractor that oversees the laborers and iron workers that the state electricians would be using their aerial equipment to install the clamps that hold the arm (a job they do every day). One of the Iron workers informed me he could shut the job down because he felt the electricians were doing iron work. Is this a common occurrence? And does he have the authority to shut the job down?

Labor disputes on these types of job are quite common when one trade it trying to do "our work" Usually there is a higher power that decides who owns what work such as a central labor council. May be a big as the union business agents or even their business managers getting together and hashing out who owns what work.

 

[zog]

Yes it is common, yes he likely has the "authority" to do it, yes it is nonsense. I would share similar stories and how I feel about this sort of thing but it would be deleted, so I won't.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

While jobs are often shut down for this type of thing, no union member on the job has the "authority" to shut the job down. The jurisdiction of what trade does what is handled at the "international" level and not on the job site or even by the local union business agents.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I’m going to tread carefully here because I’d like an answer. I work for the state as an inspector for the DOT, recently on one of the jobs I was overseeing I had Iron Workers, state employed electricians, laborers and an operator for a crane. We were replacing a damaged traffic signal structure on a draw bridge. The iron workers were onsite to construct the steel portion of the structure that is attached to the bridge steel. It was agreed by myself and the project manager from our maintenance contractor that oversees the laborers and iron workers that the state electricians would be using their aerial equipment to install the clamps that hold the arm (a job they do every day). One of the Iron workers informed me he could shut the job down because he felt the electricians were doing iron work. Is this a common occurrence? And does he have the authority to shut the job down?

does he have the "authority" to shut the job down? no.

can he be a PITA? seems so. what can he realistically do? call his business agent, and whine.
usually what happens in situations like this, he he squabbles, annoys everyone, including the
people whose cause he is supposedly championing, and gets transferred to another crew,
somewhere else.

thirty years ago, this sort of behaviour was much more common than it is today. most
"union issues" were resolved on the job between foremen and project superintendant.

in 30 years, i've had one "grievance" that had to be resolved.... i was working in a printing
plant, and the foreman walked by, and i said i'd like to give him a chance to make it right
before i had to call a business agent and file a formal grievance.

he asked what the problem was. i said that there were not enough gummy bears stocked in the
lunchroom, and it created a hardship for me, and i didn't want to trigger a job shutdown, and
was there a way we could solve this?

the next morning, there was a bag of gummy bears in my tool bucket... turns out he went to
costco and bought a bulk supply, and dropped a bag by every afternoon about two o'clock,
when the mid afternoon sugar slump was upon us.

except on thursdays, when the cafeteria made chocolate chip cookies, then we went on
"cookie patrol" and had cookies and milk.

the chocolate chip cookies were not part of the working agreement. we resolved that on
the jobsite.

try bringing the ironworker cookies and milk, and suggest he shup up and quit whining.

feel free to print this out, and give it to him with his cookies and milk.

 

[realolman]

Yeah... there's no union flaming or bashing in these posts:roll:

Ain't no way an ironworker has the authority to shut down anything ... especially these days.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Yeah... there's no union flaming or bashing in these posts:roll:

Ain't no way an ironworker has the authority to shut down anything ... especially these days.

yeah. especially these days.

and his cookies and milk are hanging by a thread, unless his attitude improves.

 

[K8MHZ]

Yeah... there's no union flaming or bashing in these posts:roll:

Ain't no way an ironworker has the authority to shut down anything ... especially these days.

Correct. The worst that could happen (which definitely won't in this case) is that the iron worker somehow convinces his local to 'wobble', or walk off the job on a wildcat strike. If that happened, it would still be up to the other trades to stay or go. A wobble is not a picket line.

In all my years, I only heard mention of a wobble once, and there was a pretty good reason for it. The GC on a job I was on decided that, due to vandalism and filth, the electricians were going to have to take shifts guarding the bathroom trailer. From inside. For 10 hour shifts. Being forced to stay in a filthy bathroom for 10 hour shifts, to me, was good reason to wobble. When the informal vote went around, I voted to wobble. I also told my foreman that I wouldn't do the guard duty, when my name came up he would probably have to fire me.

The threat worked, and there was no more guarding. But that was, to me, a pretty extreme situation. Fighting over who gets to bolt something together is not near enough reason to even start talking about a wobble.

 

[iwire]

I think it is foolish to think that one areas 'ways' are typical across the entire country.

I have personally seen jobs halted due to friction between the laborer and carpenters unions over whose job it was to unload millwork from trucks.

It may not be an officially sanctioned action but if no one shows up for work not much gets done.

 

[templdl]

I've have a few problems when it came to warranty work in the field. I send out service people and the union members on the job complain about my non-union members doing the warranty work.
My replly is, OK you can do the work while my guys supervise you. But, I'm only paying for my guys and I am not paying double as I am providing factory trained and authorized people to do the warranty work.
As such either a union guy watch as my people did the work or my guys may have watched union people do the work but I have never been back charged. I just layed the stupidity out on the line to the people and the problem seemed to have gone away.
I could see that non-union members doing what union members is "qualified" to do as being a bit of a problem though. It may be best to know what the issues are before they become an issue on the job site and to assure that there is an agreement before hand.
Why look from trouble?

 

[K8MHZ]

I think it is foolish to think that one areas 'ways' are typical across the entire country.

I have personally seen jobs halted due to friction between the laborer and carpenters unions over whose job it was to unload millwork from trucks.

It may not be an officially sanctioned action but if no one shows up for work not much gets done.

Agreed.

Much depends on the state laws. Michigan is a 'right to work' state and that may have a bearing on risking getting fired or not. Unions can't keep you from getting fired, the only power they have is to get the job back with back pay. Most would rather not risk getting fired and having to go through the process around here, as it doesn't always work. But, we are PC about it. We don't call it 'getting fired', we call it, 'getting sent back to the hall'.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I think it is foolish to think that one areas 'ways' are typical across the entire country.

I have personally seen jobs halted due to friction between the laborer and carpenters unions over whose job it was to unload millwork from trucks.

It may not be an officially sanctioned action but if no one shows up for work not much gets done.

very true.... joisey is a bit different than san diego.
and NYC is different than anything else.

wobbles, hairballs, and general hissy fits seem to occur on certain types of projects....
and geography plays a big part on that.

when san onofre unit three was being build in the 1970's, a disgruntled electrician
concluded his "exit interview" at the project by writing a short summary paragraph
as his method of obtaining "closure".

as it was written with a number of cans of upside down orange spray paint, in letters
three feet high, for about 200 feet on the wall facing the freeway, it's not privledged
or confidential, so i'll share it here.... ;-)

"My A$$ is red, my pocket's green, P*** on Bechtel, and their steam machine".

it's an attitude from a time that no longer exists, except in isolated pockets.
i've been on jobs where probably 10% of the labor force carried guns, and my working
partner got a 'tude one morning, and showed up with a 4" python and two speedloaders
on his tool belt, and nobody said a word. he wore it most of the week.

and these days i'm just a little one man band wandering around here and there,
helping people where i can, and that's real ok with me.

 

[texie]

I've have a few problems when it came to warranty work in the field. I send out service people and the union members on the job complain about my non-union members doing the warranty work.
My replly is, OK you can do the work while my guys supervise you. But, I'm only paying for my guys and I am not paying double as I am providing factory trained and authorized people to do the warranty work.
As such either a union guy watch as my people did the work or my guys may have watched union people do the work but I have never been back charged. I just layed the stupidity out on the line to the people and the problem seemed to have gone away.
I could see that non-union members doing what union members is "qualified" to do as being a bit of a problem though. It may be best to know what the issues are before they become an issue on the job site and to assure that there is an agreement before hand.
Why look from trouble?

I've also run into this situation where we were the authorized people to do startup and warranty on fire pump controllers, generators and such. Also at times on non union jobs where we were not the contractor of record there would be a fuss.

 

[ritelec]

the state electricians

The who?

It's easy to ruffle these guys feathers at times. What comes to mind for me is it's easier to catch flies with sugar than vinegar (maybe you should have bought breakfast).

Abit of a kindergarten mentality at times. (sorry mr. hoffa)

Could he "shut" the job down? Though to say...but he could have it come to a grinding halt.

 

[Ken9876]

Thanks for the replies; I wasn?t sure this guy had a leg to stand on when he said that to me. I did think it was funny as the job was almost over and the electricians that work for the DOT that install traffic signal equipment could easily handle the rest of the job. So instead of getting into with him, I blew it off. After talking with one of the other inspectors I work with I found out this is a common problem, so in the future I guess we are going to need to spell out who will be doing what.

 

[ritelec]

oh....ok...........now I think I got it.......the electricians where state employees, or maybe a non union shop doing work for the state, not union electricians. I could see some butting of heads.

 

[lucky1974]

"Much depends on the state laws. Michigan is a 'right to work' state "


I am not trying to nitpick you but Michigan IS NOT a right to work state. I am sure that this legislation will be coming soon. I would tell you my thoughts on it, but doesn't seem right on here. Sounds like you are an IBEW guy, if Michigan was right to work you could opt out of paying union dues.( Which is bad in my opinion).

 

[cadpoint]

.... electricians would be using their aerial equipment to install the clamps that hold the arm (a job they do every day).

Can you clear up this exact process of what is being done? If the clamp is assoicaiated to the equipment that gets wired then no the iron worker is incorrect. But this is just my opinion. FATW...