unusual problem after service change

[goldstar]

not to forget Rule #1. No electrical deficiency was ever present until after you did your work.
I think Rule #2 is everything electrical in the house is to be covered by your lifetime warranty even if it had nothing to do with the work you performed.

How is it that you have some of the same customers that I do ?

One of the first questions I ask is "Why do you want to upgrade your electrical service"? When I get answers like "I keep tripping the circuit in the bathroom", and "I trip the circuit when I have the microwave and the toaster on at the same time", I know up front that there are existing problems in the house. However, trying to explain that a service upgrade doesn't necessarily correct those problems is a problem and a challenge all unto itself. There are actually people out there who believe that you'll be changing all the wiring in their house for a couple of grand. Go figure.

 

[growler]

i would think an overload wouldn't cause E-drop, but just trip out.
HR

An overload will cause a breaker to trip. but if there is a bad connection in the circuit it will act like a resistor and limit current flow and cause lots of heat but will not allow the breaker to trip and that's what causes fires. A bad connection will show up as a larger than expected E-drop. That's where the light dimming shows up.

I had one of these not long ago and it was a back stab connection at a receptacle that had almost slipped out. Then it started to arc out. When I found it it had already started to burn the insulation on the wire pretty bad. All the damage was still inside the box but there was the potential for fire if there was air and feul available at the location. This is how most fires are stopped , the symptoms show up before the flames and the problem is found and corrected.

 

[satcom]

An overload will cause a breaker to trip. but if there is a bad connection in the circuit it will act like a resistor and limit current flow and cause lots of heat but will not allow the breaker to trip and that's what causes fires. A bad connection will show up as a larger than expected E-drop. That's where the light dimming shows up.

I had one of these not long ago and it was a back stab connection at a receptacle that had almost slipped out. Then it started to arc out. When I found it it had already started to burn the insulation on the wire pretty bad. All the damage was still inside the box but there was the potential for fire if there was air and feul available at the location. This is how most fires are stopped , the symptoms show up before the flames and the problem is found and corrected.

You are covering a good issue, loose connections that cause plenty of heat, will cause the voltage drop, but not trip the breaker.

 

[Buck Parrish]

How is it that you have some of the same customers that I do ?

One of the first questions I ask is "Why do you want to upgrade your electrical service"? When I get answers like "I keep tripping the circuit in the bathroom", and "I trip the circuit when I have the microwave and the toaster on at the same time", I know up front that there are existing problems in the house. However, trying to explain that a service upgrade doesn't necessarily correct those problems is a problem and a challenge all unto itself. There are actually people out there who believe that you'll be changing all the wiring in their house for a couple of grand. Go figure.

If they have a problem with not enough circuits. I include that in the upgrade. Some times it is easier to run a new circuit to the range. etc... then deal with the old wiring. Esspecially, if your moving the panel.
I'll even offer to run a circuit to the bath room. If their is not a dedicated one in their.

That might be why I don't get a lot of upgrades any more. Because I include the extra cost.
But I rarely get call backs.

 

[howardrichman]

That's probably exactly why it was a 20a breaker; the 15a was tripping. That the wire is #14 would contribute to voltage drop.

Guess i just assumed it would be a 12gu to a kitchen ckt. That would be the first thing I'll check amoung the ckt's connection and condition in general when or if I have to go back.


Thanks for replies
HR

 

[LarryFine]

Guess i just assumed it would be a 12gu to a kitchen ckt.

You're the one who said it had #14 wire on it.

 

[zappy]

Is this where the salemanship or better the trademanship comes in?

Besides the fact that they might need an upgrade in service, should it be reviewed why there getting an up grade,
seems obvious but then again is it?

Does anyone ever ask, is there any existing problems before we start seems logical enough?
Watch their eyes...

I like Augie's Rule, (Statement) Chain of thought!

Or maybe a good idea to walk the house, and turn everything on. That way a customer can't say "you caused this"!

 

[busman]

Had the same problem on Saturday. Kitchen lights dim after a few seconds of microwave. Here was the problem:

1) Microwave on cart in living-room (adjacent to kitchen)
2) On 15A circuit with lights in kitchen
3) Voltage dropped to 106V
4) Total current with MW on was 16.3 amps
5) Traced circuit (went all the way around the house before dead-end at MW)
6) Estimated length 140'
7) Borrowed customers laptop to use voltage drop calculator:

120V, 16.3A, 14GA, 140' = 106V

Customer was amazed at the precision of the calculation. He's getting a new 20A circuit for the MW this week.

Mark

 

[TOOL_5150]

Had the same problem on Saturday. Kitchen lights dim after a few seconds of microwave. Here was the problem:

1) Microwave on cart in living-room (adjacent to kitchen)
2) On 15A circuit with lights in kitchen
3) Voltage dropped to 106V
4) Total current with MW on was 16.3 amps
5) Traced circuit (went all the way around the house before dead-end at MW)
6) Estimated length 140'
7) Borrowed customers laptop to use voltage drop calculator:

120V, 16.3A, 14GA, 140' = 106V

Customer was amazed at the precision of the calculation. He's getting a new 20A circuit for the MW this week.

Mark

How did you get the length of the circuit? TDR? or Educated guess?

~Matt

 

[busman]

I had traced out the circuit. Standard house 50' wide by 30' deep, so:

30+50+30 for 3 sides of the perimeter and added 30' for the runs up and down the walls to switches, etc.

 

[cadpoint]

Or maybe a good idea to walk the house, and turn everything on. That way a customer can't say "you caused this"!

Yes and then pull out every plug :grin: