What about a Green Thread

[petersonra]

What about area's like in the midwest where there are alot of single dwelling housing plus "i may be wrong on this" isn't there a new solar coating for windows? That would be great for these sky scrapers out there with all that surface area going to waste.

The thing is that the only surface area that matters is the amount of dirt it covers.

There are all kinds of things in the works, many have been in the works for 20 years or more and still show no sign of being truly usable.

Even if you could make solar PV 100% efficient (and the physics says you can't) all the surface area covered by buildings still doesn't come close to solving anything, especially with the complet inability to store it economically for times when there is no sun (about 70% of the time BTW on average).

ironically, relying on solar energy would actually make energy generated in traditional ways even more expensive since to cover for the rainy days you would have to build generating capacity that was only used about 25% of the time. Not real economical.

 

[ronaldrc]

Thats a good idea

Theres all kinds of renewable energy out there.

But like our ideas if its simple no one wants to talk about it or spend the money.

 

[LarryFine]

Here is a workable for exspensive solution.

Ronald

Nice pic, Ron!

It looks like a liquid capacitor.

Oh, Happy Square Day! :smile:

 

[ronaldrc]

Hey

It does don't it.

 

[mikeames]

Its a good system until we loose earth gravity.... Ha ha

 

[Cold Fusion]

I'm still holding out for ......

 

[bcorbin]

I've been having the same recurring nightmare lately.

Some silver-tongued politician in a sharp suit announces over big-screen TV's nationwide, "since all efforts to produce more energy have failed, we are being forced to take more drastic measures to help society lower their carbon footprint. My administration is working out the details as we speak, but I believe we have found a solution." A jubilant 51% of the population gobbles this up like a precious scrap from the master's table.

Within 50 years, just three generations, it is illegal to have a child outside of a state-run hospital, where your grandchildren are given an injection at birth to genetically limit their physical size to 36" adult height. All buildings, vehicles, aplliances, etc. are now produced at halfscale, for better use of all resources. That injection is far less expensive than energy research.

I'm 6'5". I've sort of been living in a world built for little people for a while now.

 

[ronaldrc]

I'm sorry if I sound half witted.

But I don't understand half of any thing posted on some of these thread sometime.

I know I'm a senior citizen but now every time I get on this forum I think I'm loosing it.

Could you please explain the post above so a person of average intelligence can understand what you are talking about.

Thanks

 

[bcorbin]

This thread is about new energy sources. I think due to political forces, the focus will eventually shift to ways to save energy. I presented the ultimate way to save energy. It's not even that far fatched either. I hear debates on whether to charge tall or fat people for extra seats or fuel on airlines. I see hybrid and electric vehicles being proposed that a smurf would be cramped in. If they start rationing energy, will people's physical size be counted against them?

Just my sunny view on the future of our world...

 

[winnie]

My 'gut belief' is that solar power is the energy production system that we should be aiming for, but that it is not yet practical and that it should not be shoved down people's throats.

Several others have raised the point that solar and wind power are not 'dispatchable'; you can't decide when to use the resource; the sun shines when it shines, and the wind blows when it blows. But our entire concept of using electricity depends upon sources that are available at our beck and call.

I believe that a big part of the solution will be to use dispatchable _loads_ to compensate both for non-dispatchable sources such as wind power, and also to help match base load power production to variable customer loads.

Plug in electric cars---make battery charging dispatchable. You don't care _when_ your car charges, as long as it is charged before you need to drive it. Electric hydrogen production---do this when the wind is blowing or at night when there is excess base load power. The more loads that we can design to accommodate a variable power supply, the more we can tolerate the variability of wind and solar power.

-Jon

P.S. I believe that rationing energy is a backward way of dealing with real problems. There is abundant energy all around us; what costs and limits us is _gathering it up_. Oil is great because the energy comes pre-concentrated in a useable form. We need to learn how to gather up more energy in a sustainable fashion, not be scared of using energy.

 

[bcorbin]

I said I was "presenting" the rationing idea. I didn't mean I support it. I'd be toast under that system.

I'm all for going nuclear fusion. There are estimated to be 1 million tons of Tritium on the moon, just waiting to be scooped up. 25 tons (one space shuttle payload) could power the entire U.S for one year. Or the whole world for thousands of years.

 

[steelersman]

I said I was "presenting" the rationing idea. I didn't mean I support it. I'd be toast under that system.

I'm all for going nuclear fusion. There are estimated to be 1 million tons of Tritium on the moon, just waiting to be scooped up. 25 tons (one space shuttle payload) could power the entire U.S for one year. Or the whole world for thousands of years.

if one payload can power the US for 1 year then how can that same payload power the entire world for thousands?

 

[bcorbin]

I meant the whole 1 million tons could...sorry, I'm always slap-happy on Tuesdays.

 

[steelersman]

I meant the whole 1 million tons could...sorry, I'm always slap-happy on Tuesdays.

oh....well we should go get it and use it!!

 

[Besoeker]

I believe that a big part of the solution will be to use dispatchable _loads_ to compensate both for non-dispatchable sources such as wind power, and also to help match base load power production to variable customer loads.

Agreed.
Variable renewables are an on-availibility resource. We have an on-demand expectation. The only way we have at present of coping with this disparity is to have spinning reserve. That is generators, typically fossil powered, on line ready to take up the load when the renewables can't deliver.
Running generators as spinning reserve (i.e. light load) is inefficient in terms of fuel use and thus bad in terms of CO2 and other GHG emissions.
I have seen several studies showing that in input of more that 20% from variable renewables would actually increase emissions.

Plug in electric cars---make battery charging dispatchable. You don't care _when_ your car charges, as long as it is charged before you need to drive it.

And can do the distance you need on that charge and recharge in a reasonable time. For me, those would both be a problem.
I quite frequently make a round trip of upwards of 400 miles in a day. The best range for current electric cars is around 200 miles so I could get maybe get to my destination. Then I'd need a full recharge. Maybe 50kWh. From a standard outlet here that would take about 17 hours. Then, when I got home, it would be another 17 hours to recharge fully.
By contrast, on the same trip with my current car, I can get there and back on about half a tank of fuel. When I need to refuel from empty, it takes minutes and fuelling stations abound and the sat nav shows them all.
For electric cars to become mainstream I think a few things need to happen.

• Range needs to be comparable to ICE powered cars.
• A recharging station infrastructure needs to be in place to provide rapid "refuelling" at convenient distances. That's something of a challenge for a number of reasons.
• Ranges need to include practical rather than just specialist sports cars.
• Price needs to be affordable.

 

[steelersman]

And can do the distance you need on that charge and recharge in a reasonable time. For me, those would both be a problem.
I quite frequently make a round trip of upwards of 400 miles in a day. The best range for current electric cars is around 200 miles so I could get maybe get to my destination. Then I'd need a full recharge. Maybe 50kWh. From a standard outlet here that would take about 17 hours. Then, when I got home, it would be another 17 hours to recharge fully.
By contrast, on the same trip with my current car, I can get there and back on about half a tank of fuel. When I need to refuel from empty, it takes minutes and fuelling stations abound and the sat nav shows them all.

For electric cars to become mainstream I think a few things need to happen.

• Range needs to be comparable to ICE powered cars.
• A recharging station infrastructure needs to be in place to provide rapid "refuelling" at convenient distances. That's something of a challenge for a number of reasons.
• Ranges need to include practical rather than just specialist sports cars.
• Price needs to be affordable.

Or you could get the Chevy Volt when it becomes available. That way when your battery is low your onboard generator takes over and charges the battery uninterrupted. Of course you're still using gas but not nearly as much. Also the battery doesn't take that long to charge if plugged into an outlet. 5 hours if plugged into a 240 volt outlet and 10 if plugged into a 120 volt outlet.

 

[LarryFine]

5 hours if plugged into a 240 volt outlet and 10 if plugged into a 120 volt outlet.

A convertible plug?

 

[Besoeker]

Or you could get the Chevy Volt when it becomes available. That way when your battery is low your onboard generator takes over and charges the battery uninterrupted. Of course you're still using gas but not nearly as much. Also the battery doesn't take that long to charge if plugged into an outlet. 5 hours if plugged into a 240 volt outlet and 10 if plugged into a 120 volt outlet.

From:
http://gm-volt.com/about/

"The electric engine gets its power from a very powerful high-voltage battery pack that can store enough energy to drive the car up to 40 miles in standard driving conditions."
The on-board cumbustion engine:
"The motor is not connected to the wheels, it is only a generator. The brilliance of this feature is that you will have an overall driving range of 400 miles. The efficiency of this motor amounts to about 50 mpg, for each gallon you use to charge the batteries."
My current car gives me twice that range and better mpg.

 

[steelersman]

A convertible plug?

I guess but I don't know how that works. I just know that you have the option of either voltage.

 

[steelersman]

The efficiency of this motor amounts to about 50 mpg, for each gallon you use to charge the batteries.
My current car gives me twice that range and better mpg.

That's very impressive. What kind of car is it and what gives it such good gas mileage?