What is the power of an incandescent lamp at 200v 5A?

[LarryFine]

Do you pay your power company for gas?

No, but that's the result every time I look at an electric bill. :roll:

 

[mivey]

Ouch, and I thought my bill was already high.

From 6/9 to 5/10 12,569 kWh.

As little as 25 per day (Nov) up to 50 per day. (Aug)

No need to worry yet; I'll run about 33k/yr with some months over 4k.

 

[mivey]

Do you pay your power company for gas?

I did at my previous location. I also paid for street lights on my water bill (a carry-over from the days when the water system had the only available billing system). Many utilities are multi-service providers.

The point for Larry was that the usage I quoted might be high since he does not use electric heat strips.

 

[Besoeker]

The point for Larry was that the usage I quoted might be high since he does not use electric heat strips.

Then he might not be as profligate as your figures suggested.

 

[mivey]

Then he might not be as profligate as your figures suggested.

I gave him extra because he's the man!

 

[Besoeker]

I gave him extra because he's the man!

Indeed. A Fine man (so maybe he works for some sort of law enforcement agency, or a librarian....?)

In post #61 he mentioned power company so it would have been reasonable to assume that his question related to electrical energy. His subsequent post #81 confirmed that his power company didn't charge for gas. I think this is the normal situation - I have quite a few friends and relatives in the USA and those who use gas pay for it separately.

Average electrical energy consumption per household is about 4,700 kWh in UK and about double that in USA. Say 9,000 kWh.
That's the basis on which I asked you if you thought Larry was profligate when you guessed at 13,500 kWh.

 

[LarryFine]

I gave him extra because he's the man!

The Man Song

Indeed. A Fine man (so maybe he works for some sort of law enforcement agency, or a librarian....?)

Oh, Lord, it's getting deep in here. :roll: grin But, a cop? Never! Librarian? If she's cute.

In post #61 he mentioned power company so it would have been reasonable to assume that his question related to electrical energy. His subsequent post #81 confirmed that his power company didn't charge for gas.

Reasonable and accurate.

That's the basis on which I asked you if you thought Larry was profligate when you guessed at 13,500 kWh.

I really have no idea. I've never tallied it up. That sounds too much like work.

 

[mivey]

In post #61 he mentioned power company so it would have been reasonable to assume that his question related to electrical energy. His subsequent post #81 confirmed that his power company didn't charge for gas. I think this is the normal situation - I have quite a few friends and relatives in the USA and those who use gas pay for it separately.

But if he bought gas from a power company, gas company, or the yard-broom man, the company he paid does not impact the kWh used. The only impact on kWh was whether or not he had gas appliances instead of being total electric.

Average electrical energy consumption per household is about 4,700 kWh in UK and about double that in USA. Say 9,000 kWh.

In 2008, the average residential U.S. customer used 10,913 kWh

That's the basis on which I asked you if you thought Larry was profligate when you guessed at 13,500 kWh.

Really it was just a swing based on the reported sales. The annual residential use in Virginia is 14,071 kWh. The biggest (Virginia Electric) has an average of 13,877. There were 34 utilities and the mean (average of the two in the middle) was 13,626. 13,500 seemed like a nice round number for Larry.

Add: The Virginia averages for different utilities ranged from 9,720 kWh/yr/residence (A & N Electric Coop) to 23,301 kWh/yr/residence (Town of Wakefield).

 

[mivey]

Add: The Virginia averages for different utilities ranged from 9,720 kWh/yr/residence (A & N Electric Coop) to 23,301 kWh/yr/residence (Town of Wakefield).

Here are the Virginia Companies with their kWh/yr/residence and average ?/kWh:
A & N Electric Coop | 9,720 kWh | 12.6?
Appalachian Power Co | 14,968 kWh | 7.4?
BARC Electric Coop Inc | 10,036 kWh | 13.6?
Bristol Virginia Utilities | 15,386 kWh | 9.5?
Central Virginia Electric Coop | 15,377 kWh | 8.5?
City of Bedford | 13,916 kWh | 9.7?
City of Danville | 12,756 kWh | 10.0?
City of Franklin | 15,464 kWh | 9.4?
City of Manassas | 13,400 kWh | 9.8?
City of Martinsville | 11,706 kWh | 9.6?
City of Radford | 12,467 kWh | 9.1?
City of Salem | 12,140 kWh | 8.5?
Community Electric Coop | 17,110 kWh | 11.6?
Craig-Botetourt Electric Coop | 11,427 kWh | 11.9?
Harrisonburg City of | 11,733 kWh | 9.0?
Kentucky Utilities Co | 16,520 kWh | 6.4?
Mecklenburg Electric Coop, Inc | 11,579 kWh | 12.4?
Northern Neck Elec Coop, Inc | 12,468 kWh | 13.2?
Northern Virginia Elec Coop | 14,398 kWh | 12.8?
PEPCO Energy Services | 13,220 kWh | 10.5?
Powell Valley Electric Coop | 14,532 kWh | 9.1?
Prince George Electric Coop | 16,005 kWh | 11.9?
Rappahannock Electric Coop | 15,338 kWh | 12.9?
Shenandoah Valley Elec Coop | 15,333 kWh | 11.7?
Southside Electric Coop, Inc | 13,444 kWh | 13.5?
The Potomac Edison Co | 15,553 kWh | 7.0?
Town of Blackstone | 11,389 kWh | 8.6?
Town of Culpeper | 10,113 kWh | 10.9?
Town of Elkton | 11,006 kWh | 10.7?
Town of Front Royal | 13,807 kWh | 9.1?
Town of Richlands | 15,404 kWh | 8.7?
Town of Wakefield | 23,301 kWh | 8.9?
Virginia Electric & Power Co | 13,877 kWh | 9.7?
Virginia Tech Electric Service | 10,906 kWh | 8.2?

 

[Besoeker]

In 2008, the average residential U.S. customer used 10,913 kWh

You made my point.

 

[Besoeker]

Oh, Lord, it's getting deep in here. :roll: grin But, a cop? Never! Librarian? If she's cute.

Don't your librarians fine you for overdue books?
So, if you're fine man...........

 

[mivey]

Average electrical energy consumption per household is about 4,700 kWh in UK and about double that in USA. Say 9,000 kWh.
That's the basis on which I asked you if you thought Larry was profligate when you guessed at 13,500 kWh.

You made my point.

Considering (among other things) that:
1) The US has the wide ranging areas (like from Alaska to Florida), and comparing the average across such a broad area is probably meaningless.
2) Comparing the US to the UK makes the area much broader and much less meaningful.
3) The average usage in Larry's state is close to what I quoted for Larry.
4) Profligate mean recklessly wasteful.
5) Being average in your local area is not a good indicator of being profligate.
6) Being less than 24% above a national average that covers a broad expanse of territory, lifestyles, and customs is not a good indicator of being profligate.
7) Being below the average for your local area is not a good indicator of being profligate.

If your point was that your basis for your question of profligacy was conjectural, then I made your point. :grin:

 

[Besoeker]

Considering (among other things) that:
1) The US has the wide ranging areas (like from Alaska to Florida), and comparing the average across such a broad area is probably meaningless.

It's a fair point although I didn't actually make such a comparison.

2) Comparing the US to the UK makes the area much broader and much less meaningful.

I didn't compare them. I had done some previous searching on this for a different topic and the numbers that came up indicated that the US consumption was about twice that of UK. I used that to jump to the 9,000 kWh. It was evidently an underestimation.

3) The average usage in Larry's state is close to what I quoted for Larry.

But you included gas. See post #71.

4) Profligate mean recklessly wasteful.

I know. I don't use words that I don't know the meaning of.

5) Being average in your local area is not a good indicator of being profligate.

Nor prudent.

6) Being less than 24% above a national average that covers a broad expanse of territory, lifestyles, and customs is not a good indicator of being profligate.

Nor prudent.

7) Being below the average for your local area is not a good indicator of being profligate.

Quite right.
It doesn't tell you anything more than below average. It could be anything from an average family being parsimonious to a single occupancy bachelor pad with no care being given to economy of use.

If your point was that your basis for your question of profligacy was conjectural, then I made your point. :grin:

It was a little more than just conjecture, but let that pass.
Moving on a little.
USA uses more energy per capita than any other country. The economy has supported a lifestyle that others envy.

 

[mivey]

But you included gas. See post #71.

No, I did not include gas in my estimate. I don't know what the gas/electric mixture is in Virginia and did not bother to look. Nor did I make a load calculation based on total electric vs a gas/electric mix.

I assumed he had the average profile of an average home in Virginia. Your assumption of a profligate calculation was certainly a reasonable query. After your post, I looked and found that Larry did indeed have gas heat. But so do the other people in Virginia.

If one were to assume that a lot of his heating load was already covered by gas BTUs, and the average person did not, you might could make the argument that he was using more than the average bear. I really did not give it that much thought and certainly did not consider him to be profligate, but probably better off than the average guy as he seems to be one to excel.

My quip about giving him extra because he was "the man" was a joke in reference to a different thread.

I know. I don't use words that I don't know the meaning of.

Of course you do. I was just summarizing.

Quite right.
It doesn't tell you anything more than below average. It could be anything from an average family being parsimonious to a single occupancy bachelor pad with no care being given to economy of use.

Right you are.

It was a little more than just conjecture, but let that pass.

An exaggeration on my part for effect only.

USA uses more energy per capita than any other country.

Maybe you need to tighten up on your research. While we probably make the top 7% or so, we are not the top user per capita.

The economy has supported a lifestyle that others envy.

Of that there is no doubt.

 

[iwire]

What is the power of an incandescent lamp at 200v 5A?

Enough to power at least 95 posts.

 

[mivey]

Enough to power at least 95 posts.

I got nowhere else to go! I got nowhere else to g... I got nothin' else. :grin:

 

[LarryFine]

I got nowhere else to go! I got nowhere else to g... I got nothin' else. :grin:

You're an officer and a gentleman.

 

[glene77is]

100802-2046 EST

realolman:

For a complex waveform represented by a mathematical equation one would use calculus to calculate the RMS value.

.

GAR,

What is the sampling rate of your RMS meter ?

I doubt that it is stated directly in the meter documentation.
Probably refers to a range of "50 to 400 Hz accuracy".
Nyquist considerations lead me to say the sampling rate would be 1 KHz
(twice the max frequency of the waveform).

Spikes of information may be lost between samples,
thus the loss of accuracy past the 400 Hz frequencies.
(That is not the only reason for inaccuracies at higher frequencies
but electricians usually don't get into R.F. energy and 2piFC calculations.)

Your comments are always interesting.

 

[gar]

100809-0728 EST

glene77is:

I don't know.

Somewhere I may have a hot wire ammeter good to maybe 30 mHz. Back in the 50s I believe Ballatine made an RMS voltmeter using log amplifiers that was at least good thru the audio range.

Some time back I played with some waveforms into my Fluke 87, but at low frequencies. I believe I tried a rectangular pulse of 10 % duty cycle. Reading was not too bad relative to calculated value. On a sine wave the 87 isn't much good above 10 to 20 kHz in contrast to a Simpson 260 good to several hundred kHz.

The TED energy monitor only outputs at 1 second increments and I have no idea how it handles badly distorted 60 Hz waveforms.

Teridian has some energy measurement chips, I don't know where the specs are at the moment. Their chip will use sampled data.

.

 

[Besoeker]

Maybe you need to tighten up on your research. While we probably make the top 7% or so, we are not the top user per capita.

Correct. I didn't take account of the relatively small populations of the Scandinavian countries.
Mea culpa.
Per capita USA comes out about 5th in the league table of about 200 countries. So, a top 2.5% spot.
That's for all electrical energy consumed by country. Industrial, commercial, and residential.
The results might be a bit different with a residential only comparison.