WHAT should i charge to install this control box

[bullheimer]

just the large box in the picture on the right which has 8 controllers in it and one little box to the right of it (same picture).

it is only about 5 feet from where all the wires i need are in a j box and i just have to push three wires thru 15 ft of 2" conduit to the panel. (easy peasy). only will have one wire two conduits coming into it. both from the aforementioned j box above it

i figure about two days but dont want to charge by the hour. i figure this large seed company is good for about $1500-2000 anyway

could i get away with that? the are not looking for bids cause i have done work there before but they are used to paying union contractor wages.

disregard the pic on the right. fwiw, this is from their website co. is Link 4

 

[bullheimer]

okay i dont know my right from left. the first sentance should say left not right at first mentioin. box on LEFT! dammit. what is with this server not having my edit option half the time?????

large box in pic on left , but one little box on the right of it. yes, i said right.

oh yeah, about 14 wires goin in and 11 comin out the other pipe. then they are doing any low v.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I started responding before but was totally lost until you cleared it up. Are there is only two boxes and 2 pieces of pipe for this install? No power to connect to? No other runs?

 

[flyboy]

just the large box in the picture on the right which has 8 controllers in it and one little box to the right of it (same picture).

it is only about 5 feet from where all the wires i need are in a j box and i just have to push three wires thru 15 ft of 2" conduit to the panel. (easy peasy). only will have one wire two conduits coming into it. both from the aforementioned j box above it

i figure about two days but dont want to charge by the hour. i figure this large seed company is good for about $1500-2000 anyway

could i get away with that? the are not looking for bids cause i have done work there before but they are used to paying union contractor wages.

disregard the pic on the right. fwiw, this is from their website co. is Link 4

It seems to me; that throughout your entire post you minimize the job. "It is only", "easy peasy", "only will have". It's as though you want us to validate a cheap price for you.

And, somehow, we are supposed to answer the question "could I get away with it" because the job isn't going out to "bid" and "they are used to paying union contractor wages". First of all, none of this has anything to do with what you should charge. Second, they don't pay "union wages", contractors pay union wages, customers pay fees or contract prices.

You should be basing your prices on your breakeven and desired profit. Stop under valuating your craft, stop giving your services away, your better than that, start charging what you are worth.

This job should sell for between $2,800 - $3,200.

 

[GUNNING]

Free Seed!!

Free Seed!!

Sure go for it.




Maybe the next electrician they hire will be able to make a living. They give their seed away for free, right?

 

[WinZip]

I have to say the pic on the right was very well laid out an Installed in a very neat an uniform means of an Installation.

Nice job who ever put it together.

 

[petersonra]

I am curious why you think it would take 2 days?

It does not look like a 2 day project to me.

For small projects like this I sort of figure $500 per half day, and this looks like a half day project to me.

 

[cdslotz]

How many man/hrs did you come up with using labor units and factors?

 

[bullheimer]

yeah, i figure i'm going to tell them$1500.

there is only ONE BIG BOX AND ONE LITTLE ONE. i take me sweet time so i should be done in less than two days. if i knew what i was doing say one. at my rate of $880/day (because that is what i took home in a week working for the ibew), it will be about $1500 for a day and a half.

if i charged them $500 i would need my head examined. no matter how short of a time it took.

a friend who installs boiler/water quality controls told me to go ahead and bid $1500 since i have no competition but to go down to $1200 if i had other bids.

i am actually glad to hear petersonra say it would take him half a day even tho i totally doubt it, but it makes me feel more justified in charging less than $2000.

as far as union wages, the only co. that they had do work for them was a union outfit. i know they have to charge more than me because their bids are usually double mine.

so thanks. sorry for those who didnt read my second post. these pictures are from the mfgs website who makes the control boxes, NOT PICTURES OF WHAT I DID OR INTEND TO DO. they are just there to show pics of the two boxes i will be putting up.

 

[WinZip]

yeah, i figure i'm going to tell them$1500.

there is only ONE BIG BOX AND ONE LITTLE ONE. i take me sweet time so i should be done in less than two days. if i knew what i was doing say one. at my rate of $880/day (because that is what i took home in a week working for the ibew), it will be about $1500 for a day and a half.

if i charged them $500 i would need my head examined. no matter how short of a time it took.

a friend who installs boiler/water quality controls told me to go ahead and bid $1500 since i have no competition but to go down to $1200 if i had other bids.

i am actually glad to hear petersonra say it would take him half a day even tho i totally doubt it, but it makes me feel more justified in charging less than $2000.

as far as union wages, the only co. that they had do work for them was a union outfit. i know they have to charge more than me because their bids are usually double mine.

so thanks. sorry for those who didnt read my second post. these pictures are from the mfgs website who makes the control boxes, NOT PICTURES OF WHAT I DID OR INTEND TO DO. they are just there to show pics of the two boxes i will be putting up.

May I ask what does the controller do , what is it's purpose or did I miss something.

 

[bradleyelectric]

OK, Got to ask. If you could make as much on purely wages working for someone else as you hope to bring in for your company, why are you working for yourself? What does the fact your competitor charges twice what you do tell you?

 

[growler]

For small projects like this I sort of figure $500 per half day, and this looks like a half day project to me.

Where did you get those rates? $500 for half a day would be $125 an hour and industrial controls companies were charging that 20 years ago. I worked for a company in the early 80s that was charging over $100 an hour for my services.

A lot of the cost of doing specialized work is any training necessary to be familiar with the equipment. I have no idea what this controller does just looking at the picture.

I'm not an expert on this equipment but ever who does the install should be. They should know how long it will take and how much to charge because that's what being an expert means ( having knowledge in the field ).

 

[petersonra]

Where did you get those rates? $500 for half a day would be $125 an hour and industrial controls companies were charging that 20 years ago. I worked for a company in the early 80s that was charging over $100 an hour for my services.

A lot of the cost of doing specialized work is any training necessary to be familiar with the equipment. I have no idea what this controller does just looking at the picture.

I'm not an expert on this equipment but ever who does the install should be. They should know how long it will take and how much to charge because that's what being an expert means ( having knowledge in the field ).

No one said anything about doing anything other than mounting and wiring it up. There is no special training or experience required for that. I don't know what world you are living in but there are very few places that I am familiar with that will pay that kind of money for generic electrician work.

 

[petersonra]

i am actually glad to hear petersonra say it would take him half a day even tho i totally doubt it, but it makes me feel more justified in charging less than $2000.

I am not an electrician. But we do hire electricians from time to time and have to guess what it is going to cost us up front for that, and our customers often have to hire electricians to install our stuff, and usually they tell us what it costs them. That's what the number was based on. It's also based on some field work our guys do now and then installing this kind of thing.

But, like anything, it is very situationally dependant. If you have to drive an hour each way to get there, it goes from a 1/2 day job to a full day.

I am kind of assuming that you are there for other stuff and this kind of thing is used to fill in holes in your schedule of other work. It's also assuming the parts are there and there are drawings showing how it gets hooked up.

If you have to hunt for parts, or spend a lot of time reading manuals to figure out how it hooks up, or have to set it up after it is in place and wired, that obviously adds time, which costs money.

 

[growler]

I don't know what world you are living in but there are very few places that I am familiar with that will pay that kind of money for generic electrician work.

I live in the "real world " Bob and here is how things work in the real world. . If you hire a company that specializes in industrial controls then you will pay for a certain amount of specialized training even if you want them to change out a light bulb.

If they hire generic electrical to do the job things may work out for the best and they may not. Many times it's important to know what you are doing so that you will know if you are doing something wrong.

Bob you often state that there are electricians that don't understand the type of work that you do and have trouble reading your drawing and schematics. If you hire the right type of electricians you won't have that problem.

 

[petersonra]

Bob you often state that there are electricians that don't understand the type of work that you do and have trouble reading your drawing and schematics. If you hire the right type of electricians you won't have that problem.

I wish it was that simple. There are not a lot of industrial ECs that have those kind of people on staff, and usually there are only a couple of their guys who are really good at it.

It's a pretty specialized thing. Mostly we just do what we can to avoid field work as much as possible.

 

[bradleyelectric]

I wish it was that simple. There are not a lot of industrial ECs that have those kind of people on staff, and usually there are only a couple of their guys who are really good at it.

It's a pretty specialized thing. Mostly we just do what we can to avoid field work as much as possible.

OK, so you need a reliable source to do your generic specialized work. Got it.

 

[bullheimer]

sure, you can ask!

sure, you can ask!

four contactors are fed from the little box, which is some kind of low voltage programmable controller for four cooler- looking boxes in a green house that have three 240V lights each. and one humidifier. i dont know if the humidifier is on all the time but i assume so cause i'm just installing a 120V outlet for it in each unit. just installing the wires, that is, and there is no set of contacts for it anyway.
there are four contactors for them, one for each room. then there are three other contactors that are controlled by line voltage. one contactor for each phase. that way if a phase drops, they will shut down the two chillers that are outside so the motors dont fry. that is the way LINK 4 built this for them to do . i did not design any of it. there are wiring diagrams i have to follow from link 4. there are a couple of screw ups. they diagramed the light wires to be three phase when they are only two. and they have the chiller coil being connected by the same phase on each end. which obviously wouldnt work. if the contactors are 240 i will land phases AB BC and AC on the coil, if they are 120V i will just run A B C and a neut. but other than that the lights are already up and running w/o these boxes to manual light switches so all the wires i need are in a 12"x12" j box right above where this is getting mounted on the wall. all the wires except for the three from each phase, which are carrying no current, and also the power for the digital controller has to be plugged into a 120V dedicated circuit. so from the jbox to the panel i have to run four hots, and an N. about 10ft thru a straight pipe, hit an lb then down 5 feet hit another lb and thats it. (existing 2" conduit) has about 14 #12wires in it now. i could drive a truck thru there almost.

 

[bullheimer]

however my reasoning for $1500 was based on the fact that i do a resi panel change for $1600 and this is about the same thing so.....

as far as my rates being less than 20 years ago, damn! you are starting to make me feel bad. however, like i said i am NOT a controls expert, specialist, never do them etc etc. i need to make a mortgage payment too. the power co came to disconnect my power today and i gave them a rubber check. the cell phone clowns want $275 by 5 pm so i actually paid them. you get the picture?
apparently i need to take alot more controls classes so i can get that big time moolah!

fyi:
they furnished all equipment
they do all the low voltage
i do only the 120/240
i am not an expert control man
i live two miles from the site
they say they would do it but are just too busy

 

[Cow]

I am curious why you think it would take 2 days?

It does not look like a 2 day project to me.

For small projects like this I sort of figure $500 per half day, and this looks like a half day project to me.

Same here.:-?

If that took me two days, I'd be fired....