Wrong color wire on different systems.

[09387078]

My boss mkaes me land odd color wires in a panel. I think is a big mastake 208/120 should only be black, red ,blue and laned on the proper phase. Pink,purple should be left for switch legs and maybe control wire.We have 480 and 208 in this commecial building and i believe it may cause problems for others in the future .Lights are 480 in which he pulls red and black ,recepticles are 120 and he pulls brown ,yellow,ect.He says #12 IN AMPS is the same in any color so it dont matter, well it does to me and yes THHN #12 red is the same as THHN#12 brown it just needs to be on the right system.So what do you all think of this and what problems do you think this could cause for the future?I know if i was a inspector and seen 20 pinks in a panel i would have a lot of questions concerning the rest of the work.I also told him atleast tag the lights as being 480 so people won't think it's 208.It just makes me mad because everything else is perfect ,tight,grounded ,clean,up to code, except this junk.

 

[jumper]

Show your boss 210.5.

(C) Identification of Ungrounded Conductors. Ungrounded
conductors shall be identified in accordance with
210.5(C)(1), (2), and (3).
(1) Application. Where the premises wiring system has
branch circuits supplied from more than one nominal voltage
system, each ungrounded conductor of a branch circuit
shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination,
connection, and splice points.
(2) Means of Identification. The means of identification
shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking
tape, tagging, or other approved means.
(3) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized
for conductors originating within each branch-circuit panelboard
or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment
shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or
shall be permanently posted at each branch-circuit panelboard
or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If he has kept the red and black for the 480, and the brown and yellow for the 120, he is in compliance with the code rules, assuming he put the required signage at the panels.

 

[kwired]

System and phase needs identified but there is no requirement of how to do it.

Only required conductor insulation colors are white, gray, green.

 

[WIMaster]

System and phase needs identified but there is no requirement of how to do it.

Only required conductor insulation colors are white, gray, green.

Kwired is correct. The bk,r, bl & br,or,yel are only "recommended" in the NEC.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Kwired is correct. The bk,r, bl & br,or,yel are only "recommended" in the NEC.

There is no recommendation or guidance in the NEC as to what colors to use for what system.

 

[09387078]

so what do you all do.

so what do you all do.

There is no recommendation or guidance in the NEC as to what colors to use for what system.

so if it really dont matter by the code dont you think its just good work practice to keep it uniform especially when you have two diferent voltages in one building.or do you think" just grab a wire nomatter what color and run it" i know when i wire it by my rules and go in a jbox and see a pink ,black ,red ,blue i know i got 3 phases on the 208/120 system and a switch leg in the box.

 

[kwired]

so if it really dont matter by the code dont you think its just good work practice to keep it uniform especially when you have two diferent voltages in one building.or do you think" just grab a wire nomatter what color and run it" i know when i wire it by my rules and go in a jbox and see a pink ,black ,red ,blue i know i got 3 phases on the 208/120 system and a switch leg in the box.

Depends on how you choose to identify. Colors is a common choice. Marking, tagging, painting, custom made conductors with factory markings are a few other possibilities.

 

[Cow]

so if it really dont matter by the code dont you think its just good work practice to keep it uniform especially when you have two diferent voltages in one building.or do you think" just grab a wire nomatter what color and run it" i know when i wire it by my rules and go in a jbox and see a pink ,black ,red ,blue i know i got 3 phases on the 208/120 system and a switch leg in the box.

Did you read the code article posted above?

You can't use the same color for different systems. Pick the colors you're going to use for each system voltage and go with it. But using the same color for both, is silly IMO.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

so if it really dont matter by the code dont you think its just good work practice to keep it uniform especially when you have two diferent voltages in one building.or do you think" just grab a wire nomatter what color and run it" i know when i wire it by my rules and go in a jbox and see a pink ,black ,red ,blue i know i got 3 phases on the 208/120 system and a switch leg in the box.

That is not what I said. I said the code does not specify or recommend the colors or other means of identification that is used to meet the requirements of 210.5.

 

[hurk27]

My boss mkaes me land odd color wires in a panel. I think is a big mastake 208/120 should only be black, red ,blue and laned on the proper phase. Pink,purple should be left for switch legs and maybe control wire.We have 480 and 208 in this commecial building and i believe it may cause problems for others in the future .Lights are 480 in which he pulls red and black ,recepticles are 120 and he pulls brown ,yellow,ect.He says #12 IN AMPS is the same in any color so it dont matter, well it does to me and yes THHN #12 red is the same as THHN#12 brown it just needs to be on the right system.So what do you all think of this and what problems do you think this could cause for the future?I know if i was a inspector and seen 20 pinks in a panel i would have a lot of questions concerning the rest of the work.I also told him atleast tag the lights as being 480 so people won't think it's 208.It just makes me mad because everything else is perfect ,tight,grounded ,clean,up to code, except this junk.

If these lights are fed from a 480/277 system they are ok, but if this is a delta 480 where you will have 480 to ground, it is a violation of 210.6(D), to be inside a building?

 

[WIMaster]

There is no recommendation or guidance in the NEC as to what colors to use for what system.

Sorry it is not in the NEC it is in Wisconsins' comm 16
16.210(1) Identification for branch circuits. This is adepartment informational note to be used under NEC210.5(C)
Note: For 277/480 volt systems the recommended wire colors are brown, orange and yellow. For 120/208 volt systems, the recommended wire colors are black, red and blue.

 

[jmellc]

Regardless of law, every effort should be made to keep colors uniform. BRB are generally used by most installers for 120/208 & BOY for 277/480. Having done midnight service calls in strange buildings, I don't appreciate colors just thrown in at random. We have enough shadows to chase without a boss purposely slopping things up. I can understand having to use MC cable in other colors, I would think to double check that. I shouldn't have to second guess conductors in a j box or conduit. Does he have you start from the panel in 1 color, then change along the way if you run short? Don't risk your job but look for another one if you can't convince him this is unsafe.

 

[iwire]

Regardless of law, every effort should be made to keep colors uniform. BRB are generally used by most installers for 120/208 & BOY for 277/480. Having done midnight service calls in strange buildings, I don't appreciate colors just thrown in at random. We have enough shadows to chase without a boss purposely slopping things up. I can understand having to use MC cable in other colors, I would think to double check that. I shouldn't have to second guess conductors in a j box or conduit.

Yes, you should double check and what you describe is exactly the reason NOT to have a color code.

 

[kwired]

I have always found that a meter will tell me what the voltage is no matter what colors or markings are on the conductors.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Sorry it is not in the NEC it is in Wisconsins' comm 16
16.210(1) Identification for branch circuits. This is adepartment informational note to be used under NEC210.5(C)
Note: For 277/480 volt systems the recommended wire colors are brown, orange and yellow. For 120/208 volt systems, the recommended wire colors are black, red and blue.

That still does not make the use of those colors mandatory. It says "recommended" colors. When a code uses that word, you still can make your own choice as to the colors used to identify the phase and system. If they want to make it a requirement, they would have to use the word "shall".

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Regardless of law, every effort should be made to keep colors uniform. BRB are generally used by most installers for 120/208 & BOY for 277/480. Having done midnight service calls in strange buildings, I don't appreciate colors just thrown in at random. We have enough shadows to chase without a boss purposely slopping things up. I can understand having to use MC cable in other colors, I would think to double check that. I shouldn't have to second guess conductors in a j box or conduit. Does he have you start from the panel in 1 color, then change along the way if you run short? Don't risk your job but look for another one if you can't convince him this is unsafe.

Yes, you should have to check because everyone does not follow the rules.

The fact that many do not check is the very reason I would support a code rule that would require all conductors to be black. Then you could never make an assumption based on the wire color.

As far as the use of MC in other colors, that would depend on what the information is on the posting that is required at each panel. If the posting specifies wire color and not a tape marking then you would be required to use MC with colors that match the posting.

Also there is no provision that permits the use of a color other than the ones shown on the informational posting for travelers or switch legs.

 

[Barndog]

Regardless of law, every effort should be made to keep colors uniform. BRB are generally used by most installers for 120/208 & BOY for 277/480. Having done midnight service calls in strange buildings, I don't appreciate colors just thrown in at random. We have enough shadows to chase without a boss purposely slopping things up. I can understand having to use MC cable in other colors, I would think to double check that. I shouldn't have to second guess conductors in a j box or conduit. Does he have you start from the panel in 1 color, then change along the way if you run short? Don't risk your job but look for another one if you can't convince him this is unsafe.

If the NEC does not give you colors to use where are you getting that Black, Red, Blue is for 208/120 and Brown, Orange, Yellow is for 277/480. You should always check the wires. If you just went on the colors in a Junction box you could hook your load up to the wrong system voltage voltage.

 

[Barndog]

Sorry it is not in the NEC it is in Wisconsins' comm 16
16.210(1) Identification for branch circuits. This is adepartment informational note to be used under NEC210.5(C)
Note: For 277/480 volt systems the recommended wire colors are brown, orange and yellow. For 120/208 volt systems, the recommended wire colors are black, red and blue.

It says Recommended wire colors. that does not make it mandatory. Still would check the power.

 

[iwire]

It says Recommended wire colors. that does not make it mandatory. Still would check the power.

And even if it was mandatory I would check with a meter.