You make the call: NEC 110.26

[ivsenroute]

Do you think that this installation (all new) with the natural gas line run below the main panel to be a violation of 110.26(F)(1)(a) OR would you say it is acceptable under 110.26(F)(1)(b) ?

Sorry for the fuzzy picture

 

[renosteinke]

"Workspace" is measured from the FACE of the panel. Therefor, the entire wall face is outside the working space. There is no violation, since that is a surface mounted panel.

Had the panel been flush mounted there would be a violation.

 

[pete m.]

I say violation of 110.26(F)(1)(a). 110.26(F)(1)(b) simply states that foriegn systems are allowed ABOVE the dedicated space if adequate protection is provided for the electrical equipment below (i.e. leak protection).

Pete

 

[mcelweec@gmail.com]

Violation,above and below panel are dedicated electrical space 110.26(f)(1).

 

[ivsenroute]

"Workspace" is measured from the FACE of the panel. Therefor, the entire wall face is outside the working space. There is no violation, since that is a surface mounted panel.

Had the panel been flush mounted there would be a violation.

Can you specify a code section for that please?

 

[iwire]

Do you think that this installation (all new) with the natural gas line run below the main panel to be a violation of 110.26(F)(1)(a) OR would you say it is acceptable under 110.26(F)(1)(b) ?

Yes I do think it is a violation.

It is the same violation that occurs each time a panel is mounted flush in a wall with a bottom plate.

 

[jumper]

Can you specify a code section for that please?

Maybe this?

110.26(1) Depth of Working Space. The depth of the working
space in the direction of live parts shall not be less than that
specified in Table 110.26(A)(1) unless the requirements of
110.26(A)(1)(a), (A)(1)(b), or (A)(1)(c) are met. Distances
shall be measured from the exposed live parts or from the
enclosure or opening if the live parts are enclosed.

 

[iwire]

"Workspace" is measured from the FACE of the panel. Therefor, the entire wall face is outside the working space. There is no violation, since that is a surface mounted panel.

Had the panel been flush mounted there would be a violation.

The question has nothing to do with workspace, it has to do with Dedicated Equipment Space.

 

[ivsenroute]

The question has nothing to do with workspace, it has to do with Dedicated Equipment Space.

Agree

 

[jumper]

The question has nothing to do with workspace, it has to do with Dedicated Equipment Space.

Agree

Aw crapola, outgunned by two damn yankees this time.

 

[charlie b]

Yes I do think it is a violation.

That I agree with.

It is the same violation that occurs each time a panel is mounted flush in a wall with a bottom plate.

That I do not understand. What do you mean by "bottom plate"? Are you talking about the bottom of the panel enclosure itself, or some structural member located below the panel? If the former, then I submit that the "dedicated equipment space" does not include the volume occupied by the panel itself. If the later, then I don't know what it would be, or why it would be there, so I can't say whether it would be included in the list of things not allowed to be above or below a panel. Please help me understand the concept.

 

[iwire]

Here is a picture of the house my sister is having built.

If you look at the bottom of each wall you see a horizontal framing member that is part of the wall and sits on the floor.

When you place a panel flush in the wall you technically have a dedicated space violation. One that no one enforces and I suggest that the gas line in the OPs picture also be 'overlooked'

 

[mcelweec@gmail.com]

Above panel is 6 ft or structure so I would imagine floor or floor plate is structure.

 

[iwire]

Above panel is 6 ft or structure so I would imagine floor or floor plate is structure.

110.26(F)(1)(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the
width and depth of the equipment and extending from the
floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to
the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated
to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection
apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical
installation shall be located in this zone.

Exception: Suspended ceilings with removable panels shall
be permitted within the 1.8-m (6-ft) zone.

If we look into building codes I am sure we will find that the bottom plate is part of the wall and not part of the floor.

I know this is a minor point but it is what it is.

 

[cripple]

You make the call: NEC 110.26

You make the call: NEC 110.26

The gas line is in violation of section 110.26(F), as for the horizontal farming member it is required by another building code for therefore it is not an NEC violation. The dedicated space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 6 ft above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever is lower and shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. Section 110.26(F)(1)(b) foreign systems are permitted to be located above the dedicated space (above the six feet from the top of the equipment) if provided with protection to avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.

 

[iwire]

as for the horizontal farming member it is required by another building code for therefore it is not an NEC violation.

The building codes do not modify or circumvent the NEC as written.

The fact that member is required does not change the rules in 110.26.

Stair handrails are required by building codes as well, that does not mean we can mount a panel behind them.

 

[charlie b]

OK, Bob, now I understand your point. Thank you for the clarification.

I don't agree that the framing member violates the NEC. But I will concede that my reasoning will be not as strong as I could wish, and is readily open to debate. Here it is: That framing member is neither piping, nor a duct, nor leak detection apparatus, nor equipment. So it is not on the list of things that cannot be in the dedicated equipment space.

As to "equipment," my reading of the definition of that word restricts its meaning to things electrical in nature. A 2x4 might be considered ?material,? but it is not ?material used as part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.?

 

[iwire]

Full disclosure here ....... Don pointed most of this out to me and I think he is correct.


The problem with the argument over 'equipment' is that the CMP saw a need to put an exception in place for a suspended ceiling. Is a suspended ceiling equipment?

 

[electricmanscott]

I would pretend that pipe wasn't there if I was inspecting that.

 

[mcelweec@gmail.com]

The floor plate can be passed through.