Zinsco/ Federal Pacific

[B4T]

The feeders where hot to the touch, aluminum. Re torqued two of them but the one in the top right I couldn't move.

The torque specs were still readable?

 

[chris kennedy]

The torque specs were still readable?

Torque specs are standard and available at many sites. They are in the NECHB at 110.14.

 

[chris kennedy]

Tell Al to do it. He'll git 'er done.

He would break the lug right off the bus.

 

[paul]

I took this picture today responding to a partial power call. Although this had nothing to do with the problem, its typical of what I see with these panels. Notice the bus on the right.

Get a new breaker and move the tabs on the breaker over to the A bus. You're good to go.

 

[paul]

The average home owner knows nothing about electric. Slum lords will not care about safety of tenants. Some simply don't even try to insure these old houses as it is cheap way too tear it down to build new building.

As electricians all we can do is warn them when we see them.

Does that mean I should warn myself about the Zinsco panel in my house? I love that thing. Besides, it would decrease the value of my house if I change it from stock.

BTW, it does trip on over current. It's the short circuit tripping that there are issues with.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Does that mean I should warn myself about the Zinsco panel in my house? I love that thing. Besides, it would decrease the value of my house if I change it from stock.

BTW, it does trip on over current. It's the short circuit tripping that there are issues with.

Keep it, you never know when you might need to weld something'
Personally i would not sleep in a house with one of them.
Curious as to if your insurance company knows about it.

 

[mxslick]

I took this picture today responding to a partial power call. Although this had nothing to do with the problem, its typical of what I see with these panels. Notice the bus on the right.

I like the stranded wire on the sp20amp at the bottom..just hanging on by a few strands. That lame screw terminal was another fine Zinsco feature, it made barely adequate contact even with solid wire. :roll:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I like the stranded wire on the sp20amp at the bottom..just hanging on by a few strands. That lame screw terminal was another fine Zinsco feature, it made barely adequate contact even with solid wire. :roll:

That is the safety factor for the breaker. With luck the wire melts and opens the circuit

 

[Umlaut]

Are there two wires in each of the circuits on the top breaker? Were the Zinsco breakers rated for that, even in a dual-braker?

 

[Sierrasparky]

Get a new breaker and move the tabs on the breaker over to the A bus. You're good to go.

And How does that work with a twin?
You can only do that with a full single pole breaker!

 

[brian john]

Thomas & Betts and Connecticut Electric make listed Zinsco replacements.

And many resellers have used CBs for sale. I know of no official condemnation (as 480 says what does that mean). Now there may be some local ruling that limits selling a property with this equipment still in operation.

With no company to recall what is left in the market I would find it hard to believe the feds, any state or local government would try to force homeowners to replace equipment in service when they do not intend to sell the property.

Plus there are 100's of commercial properties with FPE, I believe these breakers were the ones that were in the recall due to improper AIC ratings being listed.

 

[electricalperson]

i never seen a zinsco panel. in MA there isnt really any of those. FPE on the other hand is very common i see them everywhere. i pulled out an FPE stab lok breaker out of a panel and it broke apart and the piece that connects to the bus was still attached onto the bus the building owner made it very clear there is no way to shut the power off to the panel. if we did he would be very upset. i had to pull the piece off with my needle nose pliers being very careful.

 

[icefalkon]

GOOD... lights on.. no smoke

BAD... lights off.. lots of smoke

LMAO! Hysterical

Here in NYC we recently did a renovation job to remove Federal Pacific's from group of condo's. Their insurance company wouldn't cover them unless they removed them. I personally was hung up on a 30A Federal back in 1989 and let me tell you...it sucks. We also used to show apprentices the dangers of Federal Panels by putting on gloves, safety goggles, and taking a wire attached to a 15A Federal breaker, grounding it...showing them how it often just wouldn't trip...compared to a GE, Murray, or Sq.D...

But there's no "law" against just leaving and reusing Federal Panels.

 

[norcal]

You can always install a new "Zinsco" the mains & bus in the picture are classic Zinsco.

Milbank bought a company called Unicorn Electrical Products which built breakers based on the Zinsco design.
Some things should be allowed to die & anything Zinsco is one of them.

 

[Ohmy]

Does that mean I should warn myself about the Zinsco panel in my house? I love that thing. Besides, it would decrease the value of my house if I change it from stock.

BTW, it does trip on over current. It's the short circuit tripping that there are issues with.

Yes, that way you can tell yourself you told yourself when the panel burns.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

they are both known for fire hazards but never have i heard them being condemned.
You cannot add a breaker to them, so if additional circuits are needed you must change panel.
No UL listed replacement breakers available.

I do not understand the not UL listed part of replacement breakers. as I understand it the replacement breakers are UL listed. Is there some information I am missing that says you can not add a new circuit to an FPE or Zinsco Panel.

I would not want to be the one adding a new circuit however I ma sure that there are lots of EC who would add a new circuit juts to get the job.

if you have something in writing form UL that says you can not add a new circuit Can you let me know where I Can find this. it would be helpful to show this to customers

 

[Zorch]

Check out www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpe.html


I use this write-up very often.

- Zorch

 

[jxofaltrds]

Check out www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpe.html


I use this write-up very often.

- Zorch

So posting a bunch of links makes something credible?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I trust either about as much as a Toyota
They have same problem they keep going till the bitter end

 

[shepelec]

SQD makes a "Stab Loc" design that FPE used. Do a search for Federal Pioneer. I seems they are popular in Canada. Looks just like FPE except they probably work.