Bathroom Circuit

[Martinelli]

I recently wire a bathroom for a client. When we were done they wanted to add another receptacle near the bathtub for a lamp (not my idea.) I already had all my required receptacles on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. I was feeling a little lazy at the end of the day and thought " I'll just come off the lighting circuit that is about 3 feet away". Here is my question. Do ALL receptacles in the bathroom have to be on the the required 20 amp branch circuit? I looked it up 210.11 and couldn't find a clear answer.

 

[480sparky]

All the receps to not have to be on the 20 bath circuit. You could have another bath circuit to feed a second recep if you wish. One bath circuit is the minimum.

 

[Martinelli]

All the receps to not have to be on the 20 bath circuit. You could have another bath circuit to feed a second recep if you wish. One bath circuit is the minimum.

Yes but if I have all my required receptacles and they are on the required circuits. If I add a receptacle for a lamp can it be on a general lighting circuit?

 

[augie47]

It can not be on a "general lighting" circuit. It can be on with the bath lights if the receptacles and lights in the one bath are on that circuit.
It's either (a) all bath receptacles (any number of baths-receptacles only)
or (b) receptacles and lights in one bath.

 

[480sparky]

Yes but if I have all my required receptacles and they are on the required circuits. If I add a receptacle for a lamp can it be on a general lighting circuit?

210.11(C)(3) prevents it.

(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.

 

[LarryFine]

Such circuits shall have no other outlets.

But, unlike kitchen SABC receptacles, it doesn't say that every receptacle in the bathroom must be on a 20a bath-receptacle-only circuit.

It must still be GFCI-protected, of course.

 

[Rewire]

But, unlike kitchen SABC receptacles, it doesn't say that every receptacle in the bathroom must be on a 20a bath-receptacle-only circuit.

It must still be GFCI-protected, of course.

"shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s)." it sure looks like all receptacle outlets

 

[satcom]

"shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s)." it sure looks like all receptacle outlets

Look at why they want the 20A circuit, (near the sink) to supply hair driers and style appliances.

So lets say the wife is using a 19A hair appliance, and dad is using a hair drier near the other sink, they will not overload the circuit.

 

[Martinelli]

Look at why they want the 20A circuit, (near the sink) to supply hair driers and style appliances.

So lets say the wife is using a 19A hair appliance, and dad is using a hair drier near the other sink, they will not overload the circuit.

I always install a separate 20A circuit for each bathroom, and have been asked to install a separate circuit for each sink in a large master bath. For the job mentioned in the OP, I ended up adding the lamp receptacle to the bath outlet circuit, but I am still curious on the requirements.

What if I were to make the receptacle switched, could it then be on a lighting circuit?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What if I were to make the receptacle switched, could it then be on a lighting circuit?

Read ar. 210.70(A)(1) except. 1

210.70 Lighting Outlets Required.
Lighting outlets shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C).
(A) Dwelling Units. In dwelling units, lighting outlets shall be installed in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3).
(1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.
Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

Of course if there are other lights you could have a switched recep. for lighting.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

As mentioned above I disagree with the fact that you cannot have another recep. in the bathroom unless it is on the bathroom required circuit. If that were true then you could not have a washing machine in a bathroom.

 

[charlie b]

"shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s)." it sure looks like all receptacle outlets

I don't see the word "all," so I have no basis for concluding that the intent was "all."

As I read it, I have to have at least one 20 amp circuit, and that circuit must feed receptacles, and that circuit must not feed any other outlets (I understand the exception, but let's ignore it for now). If I have a second 20 amp circuit feeding receptacles, it would come under the same rule, and it therefore could not also supply a lighting outlet. If, however, in addition to the one (or more) 20 amp circuits that feed bathroom receptacles, I have a 15 amp circuit that feeds bathroom lights, I see no prohibition against feeding a receptacle from that circuit.

I guess that what I am saying is that if you have a 20 amp circuit that feeds a bathroom light, and if you add a receptacle to that circuit, the circuit is "magically transformed" into being yet another "bathroom receptacle circuit," and therefore the fact that that circuit is shared by a light causes a violation, even though the light was there first.

 

[satcom]

I don't see the word "all," so I have no basis for concluding that the intent was "all."

As I read it, I have to have at least one 20 amp circuit, and that circuit must feed receptacles, and that circuit must not feed any other outlets (I understand the exception, but let's ignore it for now). If I have a second 20 amp circuit feeding receptacles, it would come under the same rule, and it therefore could not also supply a lighting outlet. If, however, in addition to the one (or more) 20 amp circuits that feed bathroom receptacles, I have a 15 amp circuit that feeds bathroom lights, I see no prohibition against feeding a receptacle from that circuit.

I guess that what I am saying is that if you have a 20 amp circuit that feeds a bathroom light, and if you add a receptacle to that circuit, the circuit is "magically transformed" into being yet another "bathroom receptacle circuit," and therefore the fact that that circuit is shared by a light causes a violation, even though the light was there first.

That is about it.

 

[growler]

Do ALL receptacles in the bathroom have to be on the the required 20 amp branch circuit? I looked it up 210.11 and couldn't find a clear answer.

In the handbook there is information that states there are two type of formal interpretation of the code. (1) interpretation if the literal text (2) interpretation of the intent of the commitee at the time the code was being written.

If I were you I would ask the local AHJ what they are willing to accept.

I could argue for either side on this issue but not being in a position of power my opinion would only be an opinion.

You could try the NFPA for a formal interpretation but that still doesn't mean the local authorities will be quick to accept it.

 

[satcom]

In the handbook there is information that states there are two type of formal interpretation of the code. (1) interpretation if the literal text (2) interpretation of the intent of the commitee at the time the code was being written.

If I were you I would ask the local AHJ what they are willing to accept.

I could argue for either side on this issue but not being in a position of power my opinion would only be an opinion.

You could try the NFPA for a formal interpretation but that still doesn't mean the local authorities will be quick to accept it.

Have you got that right!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the code allows lighting to be on the circuit with the bath recep if the circuit doesn't leave that room then what would be the problem with allowing a recep. that is not part of the required recep by the sink to be on with the lighting.

Again is a washing machine allowed in a bathroom-- mine is. Of course it is on a separate 20 amp circuit but a better case would be a switched outlet for a picture light or lamp. I have done this and as long as it is GFCI protected I believe it is okay.

If this recep. was added after inspection then I wouldn't bother calling the inspector but for future installs it may be worth checking with the ahj.

 

[Rewire]

I don't see the word "all," so I have no basis for concluding that the intent was "all."

As I read it, I have to have at least one 20 amp circuit, and that circuit must feed receptacles, and that circuit must not feed any other outlets (I understand the exception, but let's ignore it for now). If I have a second 20 amp circuit feeding receptacles, it would come under the same rule, and it therefore could not also supply a lighting outlet. If, however, in addition to the one (or more) 20 amp circuits that feed bathroom receptacles, I have a 15 amp circuit that feeds bathroom lights, I see no prohibition against feeding a receptacle from that circuit.

I guess that what I am saying is that if you have a 20 amp circuit that feeds a bathroom light, and if you add a receptacle to that circuit, the circuit is "magically transformed" into being yet another "bathroom receptacle circuit," and therefore the fact that that circuit is shared by a light causes a violation, even though the light was there first.

And this is why we update every three years and have added language.Me I read this as if it is a bathroom receptacle outlet it should be fed with the 20A bathroom circuit.

 

[LarryFine]

210.11(C)(3) prevents it.

(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.

But, as long as you comply with that requirement, there's nothing that says "there shall be no other receptacle outlets/circuits."

 

[Rewire]

As mentioned above I disagree with the fact that you cannot have another recep. in the bathroom unless it is on the bathroom required circuit. If that were true then you could not have a washing machine in a bathroom.

why not, you can plug in what ever you want.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

why not, you can plug in what ever you want.

You cannot have the laundry circuit the same as the bath circuit. Sure you can plug it in anywhere later but you need a laundry circuit.