Panasonic and AFCI issue??

[Ponchik]

I am having trouble with Panasonic whipser fan and AFCI breaker. As soon as I plug in the fan portion of the exhaust fan (with the switch off position) the AFCI trips.
One of the fans runs OK one of the fans runs for 10-15 seconds then the AFCI trips.

I have tested my wiring all OK.
I have changed AFCI breakers still trips.
4 fans along with other lighting are on four different breakers.

Panasonic technical said the bath fans were never designed to be on AFCI breaker. Anyone heard this BS before? Is it BS?

Any solutions to this? Anyone else having this trouble?

I have done many Panasonic fans on AFCI without any issue. It is my first time.

Thanks.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Interesting, Edward. I too have not had any trouble (that I am aware of) with AFCIs tripping from the Panasonic whisper line.

I find it hard to believe that the tech person's comment is a hard fact. Nothing in their literature restricts the fan to being located in areas of a dwelling that do not require AFCI protection. . .

Out of curiosity, does either of the two fans have any of the various modules added? You know, multi speed, time delay, motion sensing, humidity sensing, etc.

 

[Ponchik]

Interesting, Edward. I too have not had any trouble (that I am aware of) with AFCIs tripping from the Panasonic whisper line.

I find it hard to believe that the tech person's comment is a hard fact. Nothing in their literature restricts the fan to being located in areas of a dwelling that do not require AFCI protection. . .

Out of curiosity, does either of the two fans have any of the various modules added? You know, multi speed, time delay, motion sensing, humidity sensing, etc.

Yes it does.
could that be the problem?

 

[al hildenbrand]

I don't know. The installations that I've had on AFCI have only the multi speed module installed, with the delay on returning to low speed set to "zero" because the intent is to have the occupant switch a toggle up (on) for high and off for low speed.

 

[GoldDigger]

If the fan current when running is less than about 8A, it is not possible that you are seeing a legitimate AF trip.
Possibly there is a problem in the design or installation of one of the modules that is causing ground current to flow, producing a GF trip.

 

[al hildenbrand]

A correction to my querry, to "any" of the fans. I overlooked your specifying that there are four fans total. :ashamed:

 

[al hildenbrand]

If the fan current when running is less than about 8A, it is not possible that you are seeing a legitimate AF trip.
Possibly there is a problem in the design or installation of one of the modules that is causing ground current to flow, producing a GF trip.

Ahhh. And that turns my inquiring mind to wonder, "What other running load(s) is(are) connected to each of the AFCI protected circuits, besides the Whisper?"

 

[Ponchik]

Ahhh. And that turns my inquiring mind to wonder, "What other running load(s) is(are) connected to each of the AFCI protected circuits, besides the Whisper?"

I have other lighting loads that are connected to the AFCI. With all of loads OFF and the fan switch OFF as soon as I connect the fan harness it trips.

One of the fans will run for about 10-15 seconds then it trips.

:?:?

I have tested the wiring between the switch and the fan with an incandescent light bulb and the bulb stays ON just fine. So I don't think it is the wiring issue. The LED lights on the fan work just fine.

Tomorrow I will try to remove the features and see what happens.

Maybe a bad batch from the manufacturer. who knows?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is the reason I have always kept the bathroom off an afci circuit. I wondered if fans would have an issue from time to time...It should not be affected but it seems like it did in the op's case.

 

[texie]

I am having trouble with Panasonic whipser fan and AFCI breaker. As soon as I plug in the fan portion of the exhaust fan (with the switch off position) the AFCI trips.
One of the fans runs OK one of the fans runs for 10-15 seconds then the AFCI trips.

I have tested my wiring all OK.
I have changed AFCI breakers still trips.
4 fans along with other lighting are on four different breakers.

Panasonic technical said the bath fans were never designed to be on AFCI breaker. Anyone heard this BS before? Is it BS?

Any solutions to this? Anyone else having this trouble?

I have done many Panasonic fans on AFCI without any issue. It is my first time.

Thanks.

FWIW here is what we have been told to do to help resolve these issues by UL and NEMA. Go here: http://afcisafety.org/report.html
I'm not familiar with anyone that has been through this procedure but would love to hear if they actually respond in a timely manner and offer anything of value.

 

[ActionDave]

Yes it does.
could that be the problem?

Electronics are AFCI trouble makers. Ever since the combination feeder/branch circuit type came out I have seen nuisance tripping.

 

[Ponchik]

Electronics are AFCI trouble makers. Ever since the combination feeder/branch circuit type came out I have seen nuisance tripping.

But why would the breaker trip when the switch is off? The only thing that I can think of is the N&G are inter connected inside. Then again I tested that theory but it was not true. I was not getting any reading between the N&G of the fan harness.

Thank you all for your replies.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I have other lighting loads that are connected to the AFCI. With all of loads OFF and the fan switch OFF as soon as I connect the fan harness it trips.

One of the fans will run for about 10-15 seconds then it trips.

:?:?

I have tested the wiring between the switch and the fan with an incandescent light bulb and the bulb stays ON just fine. So I don't think it is the wiring issue. The LED lights on the fan work just fine.

Tomorrow I will try to remove the features and see what happens.

Maybe a bad batch from the manufacturer. who knows?

If the AFCI breaker is other-than GE, I'd try a GFI breaker to see if it would hold. (The GE AFCI has no ground fault sensing component.) A GFI breaker will be much more sensitive than the ground fault sensing component in the AFCI so if that's the problem in the fan, connecting the fan harness in the fan should immediately trip the GFI breaker. This would confirm the manufacturing defect, in my opinion.

 

[peter d]

If it's not too difficult, I would put this on it's own non-AFCI circuit since it's in the bathroom.

 

[al hildenbrand]

But why would the breaker trip when the switch is off? The only thing that I can think of is the N&G are inter connected inside. Then again I tested that theory but it was not true. I was not getting any reading between the N&G of the fan harness.

Thank you all for your replies.

Wait. Are you talking about a switch in the two RED leads? Do you have the multi-speed module in that fan? Or is it a single speed where you turn the motor completely on and completely off at the wall switch?

See, the two red leads in the fan housing junction box are "signal" wires, one of which is connected to the neutral inside the multi-speed module and the other is connected to multi-speed module high speed control. They are not low voltage, but they are also not carrying load (motor) current. The instructions call for them to be a separate loop down from the fan to the switch and back up to the fan. The red signal wire that gets to the neutral in the multi-speed module is NOT marked in any way that identifies it as neutral connected.

 

[Ponchik]

Wait. Are you talking about a switch in the two RED leads? Do you have the multi-speed module in that fan? Or is it a single speed where you turn the motor completely on and completely off at the wall switch?

See, the two red leads in the fan housing junction box are "signal" wires, one of which is connected to the neutral inside the multi-speed module and the other is connected to multi-speed module high speed control. They are not low voltage, but they are also not carrying load (motor) current. The instructions call for them to be a separate loop down from the fan to the switch and back up to the fan. The red signal wire that gets to the neutral in the multi-speed module is NOT marked in any way that identifies it as neutral connected.

By "Switch" I mean the wall switch.

I believe this is the wiring that you are talking about.

View attachment 17123

 

[al hildenbrand]

By "Switch" I mean the wall switch.

I believe this is the wiring that you are talking about.

View attachment 17123

Yup. The red connected at the neutral in the fan can be mis-used, as the red signal wire hook up is counter-intuitive to most fan wiring. Plugging in the harness at the fan J-box engages that red connection to the neutral. . . if you are using it, check that as well.

 

[al hildenbrand]

And I'd add, if you are not using the red signal conductors, make sure that they are dead ended inside the fan junction box and not inadvertently in contact with the metal housing.

 

[Ponchik]

And I'd add, if you are not using the red signal conductors, make sure that they are dead ended inside the fan junction box and not inadvertently in contact with the metal housing.

I bet that is the case. I will check it tomorrow.

Thanks again

 

[al hildenbrand]

I bet that is the case. I will check it tomorrow.

Thanks again

Good hunting ! :thumbsup: